Cannonical update botches again: 8.04.1 hosed

[jaxjoe]

Non-programmers should have input and should be able to vote and influence those who program. But they shouldn't be making decisions. Mostly because they can't clean up the mess.

You want to directly influence Linux? Pick up a copy of K&R and start programming. Only then can you take direct responsibility for your decisions.

I see something more specific. The new Cannonical head Jane Silber was expected to head_up UBUNTU push into the corporation. The release 10.04 LTS was s[pearhead. She prolly figured to generate an **ansatz** ... and she did just that.

It's just been all failed. The Ubuntu product is miles_wide and an inch deep in desktop usability. With enormous care by both usrland lusrs and by the Ubuntu release_team you can manage the illusion of a carefree Linux desktop.; some stuff works amazingly well. But, gawdhelpyou should usrland get 1/2 step off the beaten trail. That's what happened in the U_9.1/2 fiasco ... and is happening now in LTS updates all-over the release spectrum from 8.04.1 to 10.04 ....

Less than 1% of competitive desktop lusrs have chosen Ubuntu; that ought to have spoken volumes ... about Ubuntu weakness. Users aren't fools w.r.t. their own comfort level. But nagging facts evidently only inspired Cannonical to overbearing fantasyland folly.

They have-been/are over-reaching and the entire Ubuntu lusr_community pays with trashed systems and functionless kit.

[darkphoenix22]

I just spent two hours yesterday trying to fix a friend's laptop with Ubuntu Netbook Remix. For some reason Compiz got installed, and it cause her screen to flash whenever she logged in. There was so many levels of hacks that I had to work through that I ended up telling her just to install Linux Mint 7 Xfce Edition.

Graphics designers and usually UI designers make for horrible programming managers. Mostly because they can't program.

For example, I'm taking direct advice from a professional designer in my branding and the UI tweaks we're making for 2.0. But does he ever have final say. God no. He can't program.

The problem with Ubuntu is that we don't even have professional managers who have experience with code or even managing a business. Instead, we have these bloody arm-chair developers calling shots who have no clue about the consequences of what they're doing.

[jaxjoe]

There's a real sense in which no Ubuntu usrland improvements have been performed for the last 3 years. New functions yes ... but not usability improvements.

Since an update <one week ago> to my 8.04.1 system hosed the graphics trapping me at 800x600. New untested and unproven and unintegrated Ubuntu graphics drivers.

ZAPP YOU ARE HOSED LUSR THEY SEZ !!!

I have been searching old posts from 2005-2008 to see how xorg gets manually configured. It's year.of.our.lord 2010 ... and feckin-A Ubuntu can't keep a decent picture on-da-screen !!

Why should I need to do that ? Such fiddling is hobbyland or codeland behavior ... utterly objectionable for usrland. But, I am sure cannonical **needs** Guinea-pigs on which to test their new(er) code and those guinea-pares-R-us !

[nanonyme]

Luckily you don't have to manually configure X with open drivers and an up-to-date graphics stack.

[darkphoenix22]

There's a real sense in which no Ubuntu usrland improvements have been performed for the last 3 years. New functions yes ... but not usability improvements.

Since an update <one week ago> to my 8.04.1 system hosed the graphics trapping me at 800x600. New untested and unproven and unintegrated Ubuntu graphics drivers.

ZAPP YOU ARE HOSED LUSR THEY SEZ !!!

I have been searching old posts from 2005-2008 to see how xorg gets manually configured. It's year.of.our.lord 2010 ... and feckin-A Ubuntu can't keep a decent picture on-da-screen !!

Why should I need to do that ? Such fiddling is hobbyland or codeland behavior ... utterly objectionable for usrland. But, I am sure cannonical **needs** Guinea-pigs on which to test their new(er) code and those guinea-pares-R-us !

You can likely specify the resolution via the xorg.conf file. Running the latest drivers will also help though sometimes this isn't possible for a variety of reasons.

[jaxjoe]

[QUOTE=darkphoenix22;132478]You can likely specify the resolution via the xorg.conf file. Running the latest drivers will also help though sometimes this isn't possible for a variety of reasons.[/QUOTE

I have run various protocols and syntax-strings from various websites ... nothing works so far. But --- that's the wrong viewpoint.

The major issue is Connonicals lack-of-responsibility for the issue. They really couldn't care less what f*cks-up. UBUNTU advertizes usrland software .. its flagship OS. But, they can't follow thru on that promise. Cannonical has simply and crassly failed. Manual adjustment of files?? In an LTS software release?? Usrland has no-business messing with that.

Of-course you can say that since < 1% of all desktops are Ubuntu desktops, then there are no "usrland" Ubuntu desktops. All users of Ubuntu are hobbiests or coders. Could be true ... then I am very much out-of-place.

[jaxjoe]

Luckily you don't have to manually configure X with open drivers and an up-to-date graphics stack.

Usrland should **never** need to do this. It's a choice. I stay away from Slackmolian, LFScratcherillian and Debiolinger distros; those are for hobbyiests and coders and such-like folks who may very well need to manually execute vaious OS_admin tasks. RedHat_6 was the first to eliminate those needs ... replaced by automagic system admin.

Ubuntu followed. By choosing Ubuntu (LTS) I have explicitly opted_out of that pro_level admin game. As JL Piquard sez ... "make it so..." . But Ubuntu is trying to drag me kicking & screaming into that feckin-A coders swamp.

[kazetsukai]

Usrland should **never** need to do this. It's a choice. I stay away from Slackmolian, LFScratcherillian and Debiolinger distros; those are for hobbyiests and coders and such-like folks who may very well need to manually execute vaious OS_admin tasks. RedHat_6 was the first to eliminate those needs ... replaced by automagic system admin.

Ubuntu followed. By choosing Ubuntu (LTS) I have explicitly opted_out of that pro_level admin game. As JL Piquard sez ... "make it so..." . But Ubuntu is trying to drag me kicking & screaming into that feckin-A coders swamp.

I thought getting the NVIDIA driver on SuSE working was a little bit of a chore until I tried 10.04 LTS on the same system - the hardware was locked by Nouveau. Ubuntu is serious hell for anyone who does even minor manual configuration. I couldn't even blacklist the Nouveau driver- I had to actually remove it from the system to get it to stop.

I had to reboot every time I tested and failed on that little experiment, as Nouveau wouldn't release the GPU to the terminal once X loaded correctly- leaving me with an Original-NES-esque graphic artifact ed mess of a useless terminal.

The fully-automatic nature of Ubuntu really needs to receive more productive and suggestive criticism. Ex.: -Do not- TRY things without asking me. When compiling a list of compatible display drivers to load on first boot, ask me which one I want, or give me the option to go to a terminal. Don't spam-start X with any driver you can hop in bed with.

Overall I think most user's expectations of an OS automatically knowing everything you WANT to do is unreasonable. By trying to cater to that, Ubuntu is subject to alot of flak from many communities (including its own in many cases). If you want to use a computer, you're going to have to learn how to do the basics, including system maintenance. Its much like owning a car- you need to acknowledge that you own the responsibility of maintaining it as much as you own the right to use it. If you aren't responsible you should never expect it to work for your needs in the first place.

[jaxjoe]

I thought getting the NVIDIA driver on SuSE working was a little bit of a chore until I tried 10.04 LTS on the same system - the hardware was locked by Nouveau. Ubuntu is serious hell for anyone who does even minor manual configuration. I couldn't even blacklist the Nouveau driver- I had to actually remove it from the system to get it to stop.

I had to reboot every time I tested and failed on that little experiment, as Nouveau wouldn't release the GPU to the terminal once X loaded correctly- leaving me with an Original-NES-esque graphic artifact ed mess of a useless terminal.

The fully-automatic nature of Ubuntu really needs to receive more productive and suggestive criticism. Ex.: -Do not- TRY things without asking me. When compiling a list of compatible display drivers to load on first boot, ask me which one I want, or give me the option to go to a terminal. Don't spam-start X with any driver you can hop in bed with.

Overall I think most user's expectations of an OS automatically knowing everything you WANT to do is unreasonable. By trying to cater to that, Ubuntu is subject to alot of flak from many communities (including its own in many cases). If you want to use a computer, you're going to have to learn how to do the basics, including system maintenance. Its much like owning a car- you need to acknowledge that you own the responsibility of maintaining it as much as you own the right to use it. If you aren't responsible you should never expect it to work for your needs in the first place.

Certainly you are correct ... and my 'automagic admin' rap approaching hyperbola. Approaching ... but I am making a legit point. And not an abstract point.

To a **shockingly large** degree Cannonical has succeeded in making Ubuntu automagically self.administered. I installed U_6.06 and Ubuntu upgraded to 8.04.1 with basically no input from me.

I burned and installed aa early beta_CD of x64U_10.04 -- on spanking_new quad kit and the system for better/worse/unknowable has moved along by itself. Automagic! Success ... though vidcam/printer/sound tend to randomly vanish and reappear. Anything could be true ... and what happened was that the**best** has been true.

That's the real point of my **rant**. Cannonical knows how to do the **right thing**. But the trashing given my older kit carrying 8.04.1 LTS as OS is beyond reason and common sense. There was nothing left to get right --- everything had been got right. Why touch anything and risk destroying crucial <juju> that joelusr may have placed in that ultra_safe environment! ??

Cannonical radically_so did not act in my best interests ... and instead exposed me to unexpected, unrequested and un-necessary risk. I have no basis on which to trust anything else they do.

[jaxjoe]

Just to close out this thread ... I upgraded this kit over_WEB from 8.04 to 10.04 without serious issue.