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Thread: Direct3D 10/11 Is Now Natively Implemented On Linux!

  1. #251
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    Quote Originally Posted by V!NCENT View Post
    I both agree and do not agree.

    The web statistics for the years people needed the user agent switch trick do not count. The other years do count. 2010 counts.
    You are arguing that at some point people needed to change the user-agent string because of hotmail, assuming that a sizeable amount of linux users actually used hotmail and made that change (*). But the actual figures (no assumptions here) for that add-on are so low that they couldn't have any major effect at any time. For reference, NetMarketshare deals with 160 million individual users per month. Sorry, it just doesn't hold.

    Furthermore, if you accept the current figures one wonders where all those users went. Perhaps they got tired of changing their browsers and moved to Windows? Spontaneous combustion? Or they simply didn't exist in the first place?

    (*) And seriously, what percentage of users would be in that situation? Even taking into consideration that it's not just hotmail but other websites I'm not aware of, is it reasonable to assume that the amount of linux users with browsers reporting a Windows machine is actually higher than those who don't? And not just slightly higher, but 5-10 times higher (to make it up to 5-10% market share).

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    Hahah, and I just realised that the purpose of the user agent switcher add-on is to easily change on-the-fly your browser identification, i.e. a common scenario would be to browse normally and only activate it when you hit a website that gives you problems (I can't remember any). Even more, the user agent is reset to its default value every time you close the browser.

  3. #253
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    I know you're trying to be funny, but most people keep their browser open, first thing they do is check their mail and then don't bother anymore. Furthermore 1-something-million hotmail users alone is a massive impact considdering there are only a million-something-Linux users.

    And because you insist on debating this stupid tiny issue: one particular website != representing the world wide web demograph. So there you have it.

  4. #254
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    Quote Originally Posted by VINCENT
    I know you're trying to be funny, but most people keep their browser open, first thing they do is check their mail and then don't bother anymore. Furthermore 1-something-million hotmail users alone is a massive impact considdering there are only a million-something-Linux users.

    And because you insist on debating this stupid tiny issue: one particular website != representing the world wide web demograph. So there you have it.
    I'm not trying to be funny in any way. I laughed because I had just noticed yet one more basic objection to your argument.

    Look, you are doing all of the following: assuming stuff with absolutely no basis to do so; making figures up; failing to have a minimum grasp of geography; failing to do basic research before posting; dodging the points you can't deal with.

    I insist because this is not an stupid issue. I'm amazed at how often lunatic conspiracy theories are used with regards to everything related to Linux, when the simple reality of numbers suffices to explain most of it. This is the difference between logical reasoning and faith, or between honesty and fraud (not related, I don't want to discuss god in Phoronix). And before the off-topic police starts shooting, I invite its officers to read this paragraph again.

    So after assuming that hotmail is such an important website for linux users, you now assume that "most people keep their browser open, first thing they do is check their mail [which is hotmail, or so the argument goes] and don't bother anymore". Who told you so? Did you personally ask "most people" what do they do? Did you ask "linux users" whether they change their user-agent string? How many of them said yes? See, I could make unfounded assumptions like you do, and say that most people I know who are past their n00b days actually use IMAP/POP3. But I don't, because I simply don't know what "most people" do, and I'm not going to assume anything out of the blue.

    Secondly, where did you take the "1 million-something-Linux users" from? Have you seriously considered how ridiculous this figure is? At 1% market share and 1M linux users the total number of computer users would be 100M. It doesn't sound right, does it? 822M PCs in use in 2004 and a predicted billion for 2008 say that it doesn't. More stuff: 1,661,000 unique IP addresses collected via Yum for Fedora 13 as of last week; 2,107,000 Fedora hosts voluntary registered to smolt; Ubuntu claiming 12M users some months ago, and so on and so forth. Still think 1M means anything?

    Lastly, I don't understand your last sentence. Are you talking about the NetMarketshare example I gave?. If you are, I remind you that their collected statistics come from 40,000 different websites across the globe, that they count unique visitors per day to avoid distortions, and that the data is weighted by country based on the international internet traffic as reported, apparently, in the CIA Internet Traffic Count table.

  5. #255
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    Quote Originally Posted by imamdxl View Post
    Is there any possibility that Direct3D 9 is also implemented by the same way. Because there are thousands of existing Direct3D 9 games that can be played by WINE.
    I feel like replying to all you D3D9 wishing people. I was the one working on it for fun and I scrapped all the code (because it sucked). Luca inspired me to pick it back up again and I just committed a working trivial/clear case to my personal repo.
    It doesn't do anything besides clear, but it does work in WINE provided you compile the specific target:
    Code:
    scons statetrackers=nine drivers=r300 winsys=radeon targets=libd3d9-wine
    and pass it the right env vars
    Code:
    LD_LIBRARY_PATH=~/Programming/mesa/build/linux-x86-debug/lib/ D3D9_DLL_DRIVERS_DIR=~/Programming/mesa/build/linux-x86-debug/lib/ D3D9_DLL_DEBUG=all NINE_DEBUG=all wine Direct3DDevice.exe
    Please feel free to try it out or better yet, write some patches

  6. #256
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    I see one big advantage of these state trackers. They actually provide proof as to whether the D3D > OpenGL translation in Wine causes slowdowns. When both methods implement the API sufficiently, we can do actual benchmarks. It's a win-win situation: whichever way the benchmark would turn out, it would be the final nail in the coffin of those arguments that Wine is necessarily slower than Windows.

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    Hi, first of all, sorry if my English is bad... first time posting at a foreign forum...

    I became to much interested in this news about Gallium3D, and I'm looking for as much information as I can found... I read all the posts in this topic looking for more technical info about this API's possibilities of implementation, and I found it, but most part of the posts are about some ideological discussion about how much the use of this resource hurt the open source community... I really think this is important, but that's really the place for it ? Also, if both OpenGL and DX are closed-source, developers won't be limited by some group's internal decisions anyway ? Is there really need for panic about what can Microsoft do against Linux ? Or there is some important difference in the licenses ?.... I still don't understand how exactly this API works... I need to install D3D somehow in my OS to make it work, or Gallium3D completely replace it translating DX calls to TGSI language ? (I'm saying it in theory, i know that's being developed yet)

    I must say I don't want Linux to become some kind of Windows clone just to attract shitty Windows users who don't admit writing 1 line in the terminal or something like that, I want it to always find a better and more efficient way of doing things, and it's obvious that's the best to estimulate developers to continue/start using OpenGL (and I think who always developed for Linux will do this anyway), since it's cross-platform, but for a possible improved Wine/DX support, that can attract Windows developers and make easier software porting, I think there's nothing wrong...

    I hope you understand my view point ( and my English xD )... I know it can't be the best opinion, but think it's at least logical...

  8. #258
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bitiquinho View Post
    Is there really need for panic about what can Microsoft do against Linux ?
    Yes, althought they (MS) are not as aggressive about it as they used to be.

    It was VERY difficult to get decent support for MS Office formats, NTFS, Samba, Exchange, and many other MS-only technologies which we now have on Linux.

    Adding another MS-only technology will only put us in the same boat again.

    MacOSX does not support Direct3d, and is a major gaming platform. As long as this is the case, there is ZERO need for Direct3d on Linux.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pingufunkybeat View Post

    It was VERY difficult to get decent support for MS Office formats, NTFS, Samba, Exchange, and many other MS-only technologies which we now have on Linux.
    But having this support, even if it's not perfect, isn't something that counts points for Linux ? I mean, we have some significant and continuously developed support for .doc/.docx documents, windows shared folders, NTFS partitions, windows aplications, etc... but they don't have the same support for Linux (it sucks to not being able to even see what's inside an ext3/ext4 partition on windows, and the applications made for that never worked for me).

    The same way, having better (or begining to have) support for Direct3D 10/11 doesn't make Linux dependent of M$, only add more possibilities and capabilities for what we can do.... we can have Linux and Windows software, but windows users will only have their native software... I think this is numbers advantage

    Mac OS doesn't have native DX implementation, but uses Cider to do the same thing that Wine does. Also if having OpenGL is sufficient to make an good gaming plataform, having both OpenGL and D3D can make it even greater, Linux don't have to limitate itself to what Mac OS or another OS can do.

    Thanks for your reply

  10. #260
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    There is no central authority for "Linux", so there's no problem. On OS X, the authority and the one responsible is Apple. On Linux, we don't have such thing. We're free to do whatever the hell we want. MS has no one to sue.

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