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Thread: Primal Carnage Says Goodbye To Unigine

  1. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Svartalf View Post
    Really? And this is a dev that's telling you that you just don't know how to "do it right". I manage pretty well without the problems you're alluding to. So does LGP, really.



    Uh... Wrong. There's tons of variances that can cause a game to not run right. Apps that drop their own versions of things right straight onto the system .so's, etc. Please don't paint Windows as the holy grail- because I can tell you that with driver variances, etc. it is flatly NOT the case.
    I haven't had any problems with it.

    I'm not trying to paint Windows as the holy grail, just the fact that it's consistent rather than ever-changing (Changing driver APIs every week FTL). I've preferred to use Windows lately because software that I like is written for it, but previously for the past two years I've used Linux pretty much non-stop, and I am tired of having to fiddle with it to make it work. I'd rather be able to boot up, edit some stupid configuration options, install my nvidia drivers, and be on my merry way.

    Of course..there are people who like fiddling with it..but that gets old. When you have to port software forward multiple times it's annoying.

  2. #72
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    leave us alone if you don't appreciate fiddling.
    or go use ubuntu.
    or just lie to yourself and enjoy windows.

  3. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by NoEffex View Post
    I haven't had any problems with it.

    I'm not trying to paint Windows as the holy grail, just the fact that it's consistent rather than ever-changing (Changing driver APIs every week FTL). I've preferred to use Windows lately because software that I like is written for it, but previously for the past two years I've used Linux pretty much non-stop, and I am tired of having to fiddle with it to make it work. I'd rather be able to boot up, edit some stupid configuration options, install my nvidia drivers, and be on my merry way.

    Of course..there are people who like fiddling with it..but that gets old. When you have to port software forward multiple times it's annoying.
    Which ever-changing API's are you even talking about? I'm getting the feeling you're talking about the internal kernel API's, which aren't even exposed to userspace programs. The kernel devs make a point of maintaining backwards compatibility for anything that is available to userspace, and likewise most system libs do the same thing.

    I actually had trouble getting VS2010 working on Windows at work. I eventually ended up manually editing the registry to disable Avalon acceleration to get it working correctly. Thank you, Microsoft and NVidia, for not testing things properly.

  4. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by NoEffex View Post
    Changing driver APIs every week FTL...
    Of course..there are people who like fiddling with it..but that gets old. When you have to port software forward multiple times it's annoying.
    Sorry, but you seem to lack -basic- understanding on how to write cross distribution, let alone cross platform code. Far worse, you seem to be unable to tell the different between API changes (E.g. across different versions of the Linux kernel), compiler changes (across different versions of GCC) and distribution changes (E.g. Fedora vs Ubuntu).

    As someone that makes a (fairly good) living of writing cross platform user and kernel mode code for past 13 years, I fail to see from where you got the "driver API changing every week" claim.
    Even though the Linux kernel ABI was never defined stable (and never will), I spend less than 1% of my development time on porting my cross platform library to each new Linux release - far less time than what I previously needed when say, Windows XP replaced Windows 2K.
    Further more, most of the API changes are minute and well documented (I've got the code): structure changes, additional parameter here or there, etc. Come to think about it, even the 2.4 to 2.6 switch was rather minor - at least in my case. MS is far less forgiving in that respect.

    Windows user mode is no better. While the Win32 API is more-or-less static (and MS is itching to deprecate it), the changes MS has been introducing to the Posix layers and the NtAPI is far from being minor.
    Try getting a -reliable- callstack dump using dbhelp.dll across different versions of Visual Studio / WinSDK and than talk about stable API's. Hint: You carry a set of predefined versions of your prerequisite DLL's and make sure nothing else sneaks in. (That same can be used in Linux to solve the cross-distribution / library version problem)

    If you prefer Windows, be my guest, but stop spewing unfounded claims that you have zero chance of proving.

    - Gilboa
    DEV: Intel S2600C0, 2xE52658V2, 32GB, 4x2TB, GTX780, F20/x86_64, Dell U2711.
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  5. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by gilboa View Post
    As someone that makes a (fairly good) living of writing cross platform user and kernel mode code for past 13 years, I fail to see from where you got the "driver API changing every week" claim.
    I don't think he took the hint when I pointed some of that out to him- and I've been at it as long or longer than you have.

    What I want to know is where all these people are coming from with ideas and notions that Windows is "better" at this stuff than Linux. Different, I'd buy. Better, I'd not. (As an aside, I don't buy arguments of stability- I've had too many years doing work like providing sustaining engineering support for OpenGL drivers for AMD or developing code in places where angels fear to tread like a truly universal Thunking layer that worked the same for Win32s, Win32c, and Win32 that didn't involve merely wrapping each WoW layer with an abstraction layer and worked better than the answers MS provided because it worked both ways (which can't be said for the WoW layers...) In the end, if you touched the right edges they didn't change on you- but the same could be said of Linux.).

  6. #76
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    Just for the records, Valve for example, is providing us with a binary only cross-distribution application for a decade now. Someone would say, "WTF is he talking about?", now. And I would answer: "Watch out for the dedicated Linux servers for HL(), CSS…"

    And as I said before, I still have a copy of SimCity 3000 from Loki, that haven't been updated for more than 8 years now and it still runs on Ubuntu 10.10.

  7. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Svartalf View Post
    I don't think he took the hint when I pointed some of that out to him- and I've been at it as long or longer than you have.

    What I want to know is where all these people are coming from with ideas and notions that Windows is "better" at this stuff than Linux. Different, I'd buy. Better, I'd not. (As an aside, I don't buy arguments of stability- I've had too many years doing work like providing sustaining engineering support for OpenGL drivers for AMD or developing code in places where angels fear to tread like a truly universal Thunking layer that worked the same for Win32s, Win32c, and Win32 that didn't involve merely wrapping each WoW layer with an abstraction layer and worked better than the answers MS provided because it worked both ways (which can't be said for the WoW layers...) In the end, if you touched the right edges they didn't change on you- but the same could be said of Linux.).
    The funny thing about these people, is that they never think for a second if the reason they cannot create portable apps is *maybe* their lack of skill...

    Just because someone knows how to code, doesn't mean he knows all. There is a reason we separate programmers from software engineers... There is a difference in class... Programmers need to be lead by engineers, they cannot see the bigger picture and create large and compatible programs.

  8. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Svartalf View Post
    What I want to know is where all these peen I ople are coming from with ideas and notions that Windows is "better" at this stuff than Linux.
    Simple: MS is far more aggressive when it comes to removing existing functionality when it comes to VB, VC, VC# (let alone kernel APIs), however, in the eyes of your average MSDN-developer (Back in the 90's I used to call them Dr-Dobbs-developers) when MS throws away existing API's it is "good because it's new (tm)", but when the Linux kernel adds a single parameters to a VFS function, Linux is considered unstable.

    The biggest irony is that in the OSS world, I have the code to play with, making it possible to recover missing/obsolete features or port new features and fixes into old systems. (E.g. Creating an updated RedHat Linux 9 [!!!] with up-to-date 2.4 kernel and update libraries).
    Lets see someone achieve the same with Windows 2000...

    - Gilboa
    DEV: Intel S2600C0, 2xE52658V2, 32GB, 4x2TB, GTX780, F20/x86_64, Dell U2711.
    SRV: Intel S5520SC, 2xX5680, 36GB, 4x2TB, GTX550, F20/x86_64, Dell U2412..
    BACK: Tyan Tempest i5400XT, 2xE5335, 8GB, 3x1.5TB, 9800GTX, F20/x86-64.
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