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Thread: Mono 2.8 Is Out With C# 4.0, Better Performance

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by pingufunkybeat View Post
    You are getting spoonfed MS technology by a former MS employee. Good luck with that. Leave the rest of the Linux ecosystem out of it.
    And who's that?

    There was a time when GNOME was started to prevent a small Norwegian company from controlling the free desktop. It is an irony of fate that nowadays you have KDE to ensure that Microsoft does not control the free desktop, as it is not built on patented MS technology.
    Yes, the Vista copycat will liberate us from Microsoft. Uh, yeah, keep dreaming!

  2. #32
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    Not Vista copycat, but KDE.

    It won't liberate us from Microsoft, it provides us with a Free and Open desktop. Some of us appreciate this, others don't. They can run a simple panel + MS registry knockoff + C# + compiz and pretend that it is a free desktop :P

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackStar View Post
    And who's that?
    The recepient of the Microsoft MVP award, the guy who brought C#, .Net and MS OOXML to Linux, you don't remember?

    He created your desktop environment.


  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by kraftman View Post
    Simply, Qt. Much better runtime performance, great multithreading support and much more. Consistency etc.
    Qt is a great framework but uses its own, nonstandard version of C++, does not offer transparent language interoperability like Mono does, suffers from C++'s memory (mis)management, lack of true dynamic introspection and hard to overcome performance bottlenecks , and is only GPL or PROPRIETARY (I believe the GPL is a great license, BTW, but obviously developers want to be able to chose other licenses if they see fit). Plus, the advantage of developing end-user apps in VM-based languages like Mono or Java is that they make it very easy for users to download and install plug-ins and extensions (no matter which OS and CPU you use, just drop a package file in the extensions folders and voila). In a natively compiled environment like Qt/C++, where extensions essentially must be .so files, it's next to impossible to make that even remotely user friendly.

    Quote Originally Posted by kraftman View Post
    Yeah, keeping damn thing for ONE dumb and crappy application. This is just ridiculous. If you use tomboy, because it's more stable (I really doubt, because Gnote seems to be very stable and it's slimmer and faster same time)
    How do you define "faster" for a DESKTOP NOTES utility? By the number of nano-seconds it takes to create a new note? BTW I said there are many Mono-based apps that are good, not just tomboy.

    Quote Originally Posted by kraftman View Post
    [...] and has more features then why don't you switch to KDE where there are more features then in Gnome?
    Well... maybe because I find Gnome nicer to use? Last time I checked, Gnote didn't support the Ubuntu indicator or U1 synchronisation. Does it now?

    Quote Originally Posted by kraftman View Post
    Oracle is suing them, because they violated some term. Stop spreading FUD. Probably nobody's getting sued over CLR or Mono, because nearly nobody uses this crap.
    The FUD is yours. If I may suggest, check your facts first. The Oracle lawsuit is not about violating "some term" but specifically about *patents* that cover *core*, i.e. impossible to work-around J2ME technologies (security domains for class loading and other things).

    Quote Originally Posted by kraftman View Post
    Get the hell out with such ms bullshit out of here.
    If you expect to read only from people who agree with you, you may be disappointed. Get a life.

    Quote Originally Posted by kraftman View Post
    Better check how many patents ms breaks.
    No idea. Presumably thousands.

    Quote Originally Posted by kraftman View Post
    And Linux is here to compete with ms not to serve them.
    No, Linux is not here to compete with Microsoft or to serve them. Linux is here to be the best development platform with the broadest choice of first-class development tools. Mono is one of them, so are Qt and Java. Developers have many reasons to like it for certain types of projects.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by jacob View Post
    Qt ... is only GPL or PROPRIETARY
    It's proprietary / GPL / LGPL.

    No, Linux is not here to compete with Microsoft or to serve them. Linux is here to be the best development platform with the broadest choice of first-class development tools. Mono is one of them, so are Qt and Java. Developers have many reasons to like it for certain types of projects.
    In a way, I agree this. Linux should not copy windows, or try to be like windows.

    But the entire GNU/Linux ecosystem is also a Free and Open platform, and it is this openness that has both fostered its growth and made it resilient against underhanded tactics by companies like Microsoft. And because of this, I do have a problem when patented and closed technologies become crucial parts of such an open system.

    This applies to both .Net and Java. Java is a nice thing to have lying around for running the odd cross-platform program (Java programs are truly cross-platform, unlike most of the stuff written for .Net), but it should NEVER become a crucial part of the desktop, or toolchain. Same thing (only amplified) applies to .Net and Mono.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by pingufunkybeat View Post
    This applies to both .Net and Java. Java is a nice thing to have lying around for running the odd cross-platform program (Java programs are truly cross-platform, unlike most of the stuff written for .Net), but it should NEVER become a crucial part of the desktop, or toolchain. Same thing (only amplified) applies to .Net and Mono.
    Yes. There's a reason for that thinking (and you should see that reason applying to both Java and .Net stuff.)- you've seen what happened when someone just used the language for something with Java. Oracle is suing Google over it. It remains to be seen what will come of that, but it's definitely an issue to consider moving forward with anything Java at this point in time. The same concerns apply with .Net and Mono- Microsoft is suing Motorola over Android "infringements" of which one of the patents does cross Linux specifically (Long fileneames on FAT32...) - they claim they won't sue and give us a "Promise". Sun gave a similar one on Java.

    If it's not a full-on license grant or a "promise" that binds in court (Neither the Sun one or the MS one are all that binding, really..), much like the stuff IBM has done in the past, you can't rely upon it and it shouldn't be in anything crucial in our software ecosystem. Ever. It's sufficient to want Java OUT of LibreOffice at this point.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Svartalf View Post
    Yes. There's a reason for that thinking (and you should see that reason applying to both Java and .Net stuff.)- you've seen what happened when someone just used the language for something with Java. Oracle is suing Google over it. It remains to be seen what will come of that, but it's definitely an issue to consider moving forward with anything Java at this point in time. The same concerns apply with .Net and Mono- Microsoft is suing Motorola over Android "infringements" of which one of the patents does cross Linux specifically (Long fileneames on FAT32...) - they claim they won't sue and give us a "Promise". Sun gave a similar one on Java.

    If it's not a full-on license grant or a "promise" that binds in court (Neither the Sun one or the MS one are all that binding, really..), much like the stuff IBM has done in the past, you can't rely upon it and it shouldn't be in anything crucial in our software ecosystem. Ever. It's sufficient to want Java OUT of LibreOffice at this point.
    Ironically enough, Google's counterclaim relies heavily on Sun's promise and Oracle's support for an open-source Java (prior to acquiring the former).

    Even more ironic is the fact that this lawsuit is playing right into Microsoft's hands.

    The recepient of the Microsoft MVP award, the guy who brought C#, .Net and MS OOXML to Linux, you don't remember?

    He created your desktop environment.
    Microsoft MVP != Microsoft employee. Cheap troll tactic is cheap.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackStar View Post
    Microsoft MVP != Microsoft employee. Cheap troll tactic is cheap.
    Actually, you're right. He applied for a job with MS, but couldn't get the visa.

    But don't forget this: http://www.zdnet.com/blog/microsoft/...oundation/3888

    He's a talented coder, but with friends like that...

    There are REAL cross-platform and open platforms to support. Personally, for cross-platform APPLICATION development, I vastly prefer Python to either Java or C#.

  9. #39
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    @BlackStar,
    Haters gonna hate C++. You shouldn't hate C++ for segfaults, but your own coding skill. If you're experiencing a hell of segfault then that means that you are an extremely crappy coder.

    There are ways to creat bugfree software; planning. Cars are designed before creating them; you dont start with the rear and bump into the engine later. The same goes for software.

    Or do you think that the Shuttle Group beta tests Nasa rocket flights IRL?

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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackStar View Post
    Indeed. And the replacement turned out to be superior to Java.
    I can't really name any ways that .NET is superior to Java. I can name quite a few where the reverse is true though, and Java adoption is many times greater than .NET no matter where you go.

    Also, your comment on Qt being unstable is BS and FUD. Its more stable, better written, more feature rich, portable and (surprise!) lighter weight than GTK/Gnome at this point.

    I still haven't seen any compelling reason to use .NET over C/C++ or Java, or Mono over any native Linux development framework. There just is none. Even if you don't want to do your own memory management there are better alternatives.

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