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Thread: Adobe To Use TransGaming's SwiftShader; Remember Cedega?

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kazade View Post
    You know, I wish you'd stop shoving in that D3D State Tracker into every possible article. Unless Wine adopts it (unlikely in the near future) it's really not worth talking about.

    You even mentioned it in the ReactOS release article where it has barely any relevance, as ReactOS aren't planning on implementing Gallium3D for a long time, if at all.
    You are wrong. Wine is irrelevant. The Direct3D state tracker applys to that article almost as much as LLVMpipe itself. It would be useful for open-source implementations of Flash to offer a Direct3D API in case Adobe chooses to directly expose that. (although it's not likely to happen)

    And I hope that alien 3D API never leaves the blue-print state on Linux too. It would be just like the Flash problem, but on a very core API level.

    Quote Originally Posted by Yfrwlf View Post
    where are the open source equivalent SVG animation formats? Do any exist at all? Several formats support animations, and several support SVG, but I have yet to find one that supports both and thus could be a true open Flash replacement.
    It's done on mozilla with SMIL, which is a W3C standard:
    https://developer.mozilla.org/en/SVG...tion_with_SMIL
    It's ready to go in Firefox4 Beta.
    Using Javascript to animate SVG works already.

    Quote Originally Posted by MaestroMaus View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by d2kx View Post
    Flash sucks and I wish it would simply die.
    ...I wouldn't miss Adobe either.
    Amen. Amen.

  2. #12
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    @Michael

    So, TransGaming's SwiftShader have a downloadable Demo, I wonder if we could see a speed comparison between that and real 3D hardware and, maybe, LLVMpipe, if posible at all.

    I didn't follow the download link, so I don't know if there's a Linux version already.

  3. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by jntesteves View Post
    @Michael

    So, TransGaming's SwiftShader have a downloadable Demo, I wonder if we could see a speed comparison between that and real 3D hardware and, maybe, LLVMpipe, if posible at all.

    I didn't follow the download link, so I don't know if there's a Linux version already.
    No, they are just DX9 DLLs.

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by jntesteves View Post
    You are wrong. Wine is irrelevant. The Direct3D state tracker applys to that article almost as much as LLVMpipe itself. It would be useful for open-source implementations of Flash to offer a Direct3D API in case Adobe chooses to directly expose that. (although it's not likely to happen)
    It's incredibly unlikely to happen, what about OSX? Android? They have Flash implementations too, Adobe would be frankly off their head to expose the D3D API directly. The case in point is that even in this article it's an extremely obscure reference, and I wish Michael would stop plugging it as if it's a cure all for every situation. It's not, it's just a state tracker.

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by droidhacker View Post
    Adobe really needs to rethink their operating model....
    What do they gain by having users use their plugin vs an open source implementation of that plugin? The answer is NOTHING. In fact, it HURTS them since it means that those unable or unwilling to use their blob plugin simply won't have access to content made under their format.

    Now if, on the other hand, adobe were to drop their blob (or open source it 100%) and focus EXCLUSIVELY on developing the plugin as OPEN SOURCE, then you give off a warm and fuzzy feeling while potentially being able to REDUCE THE DEVELOPER WORKLOAD AND EXPENSE by gaining community assistance for a piece of software, which by itself, doesn't gain you any revenue to begin with!

    Their revenue comes 100% from selling their content CREATION software. Not the CONSUMPTION software, so make life easier on yourself and get some community help!
    The millions of windows/mac users don't care lol. This has nothing to do with Linux. Saying that they should adopt something open source doesn't apply because it's not linux/bsd/etc. Besides open source stuff that changes often (Open source really has become synonymous with change these days...I had to edit this post because I was using them interchangeably).

    A lot of products take years to develop. So, if it's relying on an API that changes, it's just not viable. I can't think of anything that doesn't change/break things regularly.

    That said, again, who cares. HTML5 will ruin Flash, PDF..well, they're not in as much use as they were before. Until there's a REASONABLE API that a company can rely on for cross-platform development (on a per-product basis) you people need to stop bashing on every company because they didn't use some sub-quality open-source equivalent.

    With the above said, of course that doesn't apply to their complaining about lack of video APIs because they ARE there, they just don't want to rely on something that they'll have to pay someone to fix whenever it's updated.

    That's what makes some of the older systems like BeOS (or Haiku these days), Amiga, etc interesting is because they had their APIs, they didn't have thousands of potential APIs that in the long run didn't end up getting the job done.

  6. #16
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    Honestly, I don't buy the whole API lag behind thing. Sure there will be some lag, but if the developers $want to$ and they have the man power they'll keep up at a "good enough" pace. Open source lags more because it lacks interested and talented developers more than anything else.

    Open source OpenGL development, for example, lags way behind while the closed source offerings are supporting the new OpenGL stuff days after the standard drops. NVidia doesn't have a problem keeping up with the new GLs and D3Ds.

    Adobe is sporting "optimization" for the yet to be released IE9 in Flash. Browsers are pushing some HTML5 support despite it not yet being a standard. Samba is doing just fine and works great. Despite the supposedly crippling API lag, there are plenty of examples of keeping up well enough.

    If there are enough $interested$ developers around the API in question they seem to keep up just fine.

    The real reasons for the lag are lack of interested developers and the fact that many of these projects did not start development until after they were years behind in the first place. Some projects may have the developer power to maintain the pace, but don't have the development force to get over the initial hump.

    Where there's $interest$ there's a lot less lag. There's also a lot of backwards compatibility that can be floated on while you "play catchup."

    Show me a case of "has enough $interested$ developers" that also "lags behind the API." The truth is, you probably can't find the former to prove the latter is chiefly to blame. It's impossible to say that the API lag is to blame when so many other issues exist and are probably higher up on the blame chain.

    Yes API lag is an issue, but I don't buy that it's nearly the destroyer of worlds many make it out to be. Your FUD would be better if you said "sets up for patent trap" or "will never have the developer bucks." At lest then it would be more on the money (pun intended).

    Are there projects that aren't developer starved that can't keep up? Lets just define "developer starved" as having significantly fewer man hours from skilled developers than what was/is available to the originating API development effort. What's really going on here?

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by NoEffex View Post
    The millions of windows/mac users don't care lol. This has nothing to do with Linux. Saying that they should adopt something open source doesn't apply because it's not linux/bsd/etc. Besides open source stuff that changes often (Open source really has become synonymous with change these days...I had to edit this post because I was using them interchangeably).
    It doesn't matter if they do or do not care. For them, it will make no difference.

    A lot of products take years to develop. So, if it's relying on an API that changes, it's just not viable. I can't think of anything that doesn't change/break things regularly.
    TOTALLY irrelevant.

    You have COMPLETELY failed to read my point.

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by droidhacker View Post
    It doesn't matter if they do or do not care. For them, it will make no difference.


    TOTALLY irrelevant.

    You have COMPLETELY failed to read my point.
    First paragraph or maybe sentence has anything to do with your post. The rest was directed at this thread/at my frustrations with developing using constantly-changing APIs.

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by NoEffex View Post
    First paragraph or maybe sentence has anything to do with your post. The rest was directed at this thread/at my frustrations with developing using constantly-changing APIs.
    As someone who works with .NET at work, I can tell you that the API churn there is incredible. And I think everyone is aware of how often OSX has changed APIs and how difficult it has been to switch from Carbon to Cocoa. So i find complaints about Linux APIs changing too much to be a little humorous.

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by smitty3268 View Post
    As someone who works with .NET at work, I can tell you that the API churn there is incredible. And I think everyone is aware of how often OSX has changed APIs and how difficult it has been to switch from Carbon to Cocoa. So i find complaints about Linux APIs changing too much to be a little humorous.
    Their changes are calculated and planned..linux changes heavily every release.

    I'm not talking about OS X because quite honestly I dislike Apple more than anything (ESPECIALLY for mixing Mach, a notoriously slow microkernel with FreeBSD, the less-known equal to Linux).

    The BSDs are pretty good with keeping their releases as API-compatible as possible. Rather than just update and try to keep up they are opportunistic and update when necessary, which is how it should be done. In fact, for a time (Perhaps still the case) some modules were compatible with both FreeBSD and OpenBSD or NetBSD, and of course don't forget about the totally-awesome DragonFlyBSD (That makes me feel all fuzzy inside that someone is FINALLY trying to get rid of the traditional monolithic kernel without reverting to a really slow microkernel).

    It probably has something to do with my frustrations with Fedora. Ahh..the good old days of breaking every two minutes. CentOS is all-right in that they update when necessary (errr, RHEL).

    Back to Apple..Apple is the worst along with Adobe. They straight do not update their old software and bring new features i.e. new versions of java that aren't available for the older releases, which is garbage. On windows and probably most linux distros (In fact, all the way back to windows 2k) I can install the latest Java release. Just using it as an example. Apple drops old releases like they're hot then charges ungodly cash to upgrade. I dislike Microsoft as well (Not gonna say hate because I can only hate so many companies at once..Apple and Oracle take priority) but Windows is all-right for my purposes.

    tl;dr: Apple sucks. Oracle sucks. Lets stone them.

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