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Thread: The Fedora Plans For Wayland

  1. #21
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    Wayland just makes more sense to me. With X11, the stuff that's in its core is the stuff no one needs. The stuff people actually need and want is provided as extensions.

    In Wayland, the stuff people need and want is in the core. I guess the stuff virtually no one needs can be provided in extensions. And not vice versa.

    Am I the only one to whom this makes much more sense?

  2. #22
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    Rethinking the Linux/Unix display is a Good Thing (tm), and it's great that people are doing it. Perhaps Wayland will one day solve all the problems we have with X, and we'll all be happy with it.

    It's just that people have failed over and over again in killing X and providing us with something even remotely comparable. Very smart people with good ideas.

    Now, things have changed in the meantime, and this is probably the best time to start asking these questions again -- drivers are being developed the right way and are not dependent on X, input handling is in the kernel, we are making more use of compositing and 3d acceleration everywhere, and pretty much all apps are written using portable widget libraries. A good display server could tie that all together and provide a great basis for future development.

    Could. Might. One day. Maybe. Wait and see.

    At the moment, Wayland can start and draw a window. That's it.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by cl333r View Post
    Exactly,
    Ubuntu - Mark Shuttleworth confirmed it, without ifs buts and maybes.
    Fedora - the folks who decide what's in the graphics stack acknowledged that they will move to it when its ready, which it should be in a few years.

    That's more than enough to make sure almost all Linux distros will move to it sooner or later, if you think it's still not enough proof of future success - take a hike since you obviously came here to keep ranting.
    And those who don't like (good) news about Wayland - don't read them and stop downplaying it and spreading FUD!
    Have you read the mails, surround discussions, etc, from what Phoronix linked to?
    All of the main people involved in developing this stuff agree that it's not ready. It may one day be ready, and may be a new default to replace X (as default), and the design should address many of the failings of X in today's systems.
    None of them are saying that it definitely will, that it's ready, that everything is going to happen - merely that it should.
    There's plenty of things that had good news and then fell over. Not just with X, and until (if?) Wayland is in a shape to actually be useable, all anyone can say is "it should be good" - not one of the distros will swap until they can say "it is good".
    Note that I'm not saying it will or won't be good - just that all we can do is wait and see.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by droidhacker View Post
    Huh? Just because ubuntu couldnt stick with the defaults and decided to severely break it doesn't mean that there was something particularly wrong. Fedora switched to PA for F8. F8 was a disaster (for lots of reasons, most of which do NOT involve PA), by F9, PA was ready. That's just SIX MONTHS.
    And that's why there are howtos still being written for current versions of Fedora, Ubuntu, and etc? Google will be happy to tell you how to disable/remove it for current distribution releases. It's not exactly an obscure thing to search for. (And you'd think there'd be no problems from Fedora with the lead developer working at Red Hat to begin with.) By volume there are more articles about disabling it than fixing it. If it were just a matter of changing a few bad defaults, you'd think more would leave it enabled.

    The PA fan base likes to pretend there was no problems with PA, just a handful of bad defaults from distributions and a shit ton of "bad" applications. Just outright ignore that 0.9.7-->0.9.21 happened and many of those same bad binaries work much better with PA now than PA then.

    The notion that PA hasn't matured any should be insulting to a PA fan. Any fan that thinks it was perfect form inception is just mindless. Just as mindless are those that won't give PA a chance now because of problems back then. Like I said, it's now "good enough."

    Some problems with PA, some with distributions, some with applications. Overall it took "some years" for it all to happen. I doubt it will be any different with Wayland should it actually come about. Their will be lots of articles telling you how to switch it off. Their will be lots of fans calling any applications that don't work on it critically "broken." (Which will mysteriously unbroke themselves as Wayland matures.) And some years later it will be "good enough." No doubt, some will have insisted it all worked great the whole time with ONLY distributions, users, applications, drivers, and everything else under the sun (except Wayland) to blame.

    Hopefully, in the end, Wayland will be worth it like PA is now.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jimmy View Post
    Hopefully, in the end, Wayland will be worth it like PA is now.
    Me, I hope Wayland will be nothing like PA. Because it still isn't worth much.

  6. #26
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    I speculate wayland will be rather solid in a year from this date running opensource graphic drivers. I think most negative people will change how they feel when there hands are on something tangible. I hope to see a simple live-cd demoing wayland on opensource drivers in 4 months.... little drunk but I will bet CA$10 on it.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by steverweber View Post
    I speculate wayland will be rather solid in a year from this date running opensource graphic drivers. I think most negative people will change how they feel when there hands are on something tangible. I hope to see a simple live-cd demoing wayland on opensource drivers in 4 months.... little drunk but I will bet CA$10 on it.
    4months is nothing. Porting still needs to happen and then it should land in a distro making the image...

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by V!NCENT View Post
    4months is nothing. Porting still needs to happen and then it should land in a distro making the image...
    I should have multiplied the time by 2.. /being a programmer I likely under guessed/

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by droidhacker View Post
    they don't even support KMS!!! How long has that been part of Linux now?
    I can understand NVidia in a way.
    What you need to have in mind is that NVidia's driver is essentially the same for all X11 platforms they support: Not only Linux but also FreeBSD and Solaris.
    As long as those OSes don't support KMS, I don't see NVidia just take the burden of adopting KMS just to have a slightly better looking system startup sequence.
    See http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?pag...item&px=ODcwNQ to get an idea of the problems related to support both KMS and UMS.

    Quote Originally Posted by V!NCENT View Post
    PulseAudio rocks. What's the problem with it?
    For me: Stuttering sound at least from VLC. I have PA 0.9.21 and been waiting for an update since a year because that's how long the latest PA release is out and no sign of a 1.0 release coming out in the foreseeable future...

    Quote Originally Posted by pingufunkybeat View Post
    Call me when Firefox or VLC runs on top of Wayland. Until then, this is all very hypothetical.
    At least Qt (which VLC is based on) already has a Wayland port (not stable yet, though).

    Quote Originally Posted by Jimmy View Post
    Hopefully, in the end, Wayland will be worth it like PA is now.
    A steaming pile of crap? At least PA is optional...

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