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Thread: A Visual Preview of Oracle Solaris 11 Express

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by oneman View Post
    Wow this is so exciting. BZZZZZT slowaris is long dead. Its a cool name, and it was way rad in the 90's, but it over, linux ripped its ass open.
    What? Dont you know Linux is a piece of shit, when compared to a real Enterprise Unix as Solaris? Every serious sysadmin knows that Linux have severe problems with stability, scalability and what not. You want to see some links?



    http://kerneltrap.org/Linux/Active_Merge_Windows
    "The [linux source code] tree breaks every day, and it's becomming an extremely non-fun environment to work in.

    We need to slow down the merging, we need to review things more, we need people to test their f--king changes!"




    Linus Torvalds says Linux is bloated and huge:
    http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/09..._bloated_huge/

    "Citing an internal INTEL corp study that tracked kernel releases, Bottomley said Linux performance had dropped about two per centage points at every release, for a cumulative drop of about 12 per cent over the last ten releases. "Is this a problem?" he asked.

    "We're getting bloated and huge. Yes, it's a problem," said Torvalds."




    As Linux kernel Developer Andrew Morton says:

    http://lwn.net/Articles/285088/
    "I used to think [code quality] was in decline, and I think that I might think that it still is. I see so many regressions which we never fix.
    ...
    it would help if people's patches were less buggy."





    Linux sucks as a file server.
    http://www.enterprisestorageforum.com/sans/features/article.php/3749926

    "Go mkfs a 500 TB ext-3/4 or other Linux file system, fill it up with multiple streams of data, add/remove files for a few months with, say, 20 GB/sec of bandwidth from a single large SMP server and crash the system and fsck it and tell me how long it takes. Does the I/O performance stay consistent during that few months of adding and removing files? Does the file system perform well with 1 million files in a single directory and 100 million files in the file system?

    My guess is the exercise would prove my point: Linux file systems have scaling issues that need to be addressed before 100 TB environments become commonplace. Addressing them now without rancor just might make Linux everything its proponents have hoped for."





    Linux has scaling problems. Sure, Linux runs on super computers on Top500 (which are just a fast network with a bunch of PCs) or on a 1024 core machine from SGI Altix (which is just some blades on a fast switch) - but that is not the same thing as a running a large machine. Linux always runs on networks. Not on a single large computer.




    I have lots of similar links, you want to see them? When Linux kernel devs says that Linux code quality is bad and low quality. So it seems that Linux has code quality problems, is buggy, bloated and has scaling problems. Dont you agree?

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by kebabbert View Post
    ... We need to slow down the merging, we need to review things more, we need people to test their f--king changes!" ...
    I don't know where I got the idea but, I thought the kernel devs switched to a model where there is only a one week merge window and the rest of the development cycle goes into fixing bugs.

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by renkin View Post
    I don't know where I got the idea but, I thought the kernel devs switched to a model where there is only a one week merge window and the rest of the development cycle goes into fixing bugs.
    Maybe you are correct. Maybe the link I posted, is lying? Maybe Andrew Morton also lied when he said that the code quality is bad?

  4. #14
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    Default Cool some pictures ;)

    But no mention of the the other reasons why osol did emerge in the spring.

    There were some serious bugs that would lead to loosing data or even total destruction of pools.
    Are these fixed?
    If I recall correctly one of the things was, with a full pool and not copious memory deleting a zfs would basically hang your machine forever if de-duplication was on.

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by kebabbert View Post
    Maybe you are correct. Maybe the link I posted, is lying? Maybe Andrew Morton also lied when he said that the code quality is bad?
    Maybe you are becoming boring as hell.

    Really.

  6. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by kebabbert View Post
    Maybe you are correct. Maybe the link I posted, is lying? Maybe Andrew Morton also lied when he said that the code quality is bad?
    Is it your goal in life to make "like kebabbert quotes linux developers" the 21st century replacement for "like the devil reads the bible"?

  7. #17
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    Default Objectivism vs. Subjectivism

    Quote Originally Posted by TheOrqwithVagrant View Post
    Is it your goal in life to make "like kebabbert quotes linux developers" the 21st century replacement for "like the devil reads the bible"?
    Irregardless of why he's doing it, he's being treated with scorn for what appears to me as being subjective reasons - basically because he's not toeing the Party Line (Oracle Is Evil).

    I'm no fan of Larry Ellison (because his attitude is, quite bluntly, extremely off-putting); however, I'm not going to put Oracle as a company into the "Evil Larry Ellison" basket because Oracle is a public company, and condemning them for things their CEO has done outside of his position with Oracle would be stupid of *me* (not to mention hypocritical).

    I don't like Steve Jobs, either - however, I refuse to extend my hate for Jobs to Apple as a company (I hate certain Apple products; however, that is due to the products themselves, and has nothing to do with Jobs).

    Why do I get that impression that the hate is subjective? Simple; you brought one of the more subjective of comments into the debate - the Bible itself. The very reason the Bible (as a book) came into being has been (and will remain) a subject for heavy subjective debate because the original authors and publishers are beyond our ability to put to the question. I'm an agnostic - however, I won't debate the Bible because any debate on it would be subjective.

    I will like (or not like) a company (or company's products) based on merit (or lack thereof) - my feelings for the company's officers won't matter.

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mafketel View Post
    But no mention of the the other reasons why osol did emerge in the spring.

    There were some serious bugs that would lead to loosing data or even total destruction of pools.
    Are these fixed?
    If I recall correctly one of the things was, with a full pool and not copious memory deleting a zfs would basically hang your machine forever if de-duplication was on.
    No, ZFS deduplication does not hang your machine if you have to little RAM. It only takes a long time. Because it starts to swap RAM in and out.

    Basically, you need 1GB RAM for every TB disk you want to duplicate. If you deduplicate 20TB disk, with 8GB RAM - it will take a very long time because RAM will start to swap in and out.




    PGHammer,
    No, it is not about subjectivity. I provide lots of credible links that shows that Linux do have problems. I provide links and benchmarks that shows that Solaris scales better than Linux, for instance. It is not about opinions, Linux DO scales bad. Do you want to see them links?

    On the other hand, no one can show links that Solaris scales bad. There are no such links.

  9. #19
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    Default You're Right...However...

    Quote Originally Posted by kebabbert View Post
    No, ZFS deduplication does not hang your machine if you have to little RAM. It only takes a long time. Because it starts to swap RAM in and out.

    Basically, you need 1GB RAM for every TB disk you want to duplicate. If you deduplicate 20TB disk, with 8GB RAM - it will take a very long time because RAM will start to swap in and out.




    PGHammer,
    No, it is not about subjectivity. I provide lots of credible links that shows that Linux do have problems. I provide links and benchmarks that shows that Solaris scales better than Linux, for instance. It is not about opinions, Linux DO scales bad. Do you want to see them links?

    On the other hand, no one can show links that Solaris scales bad. There are no such links.
    Kebabble, your points are indeed valid. However, I wasn't criticizing you, but *defending* you.

    If they are going to attack your points, attack them over their validity (or invalidity), instead of getting into name-calling and other immature tactical spewing.

    In a further march on the Phoronix Visual Review of Oracle's recently-released Solaris Express 11, I've gone further and done a bare-metal install (I already have a VM of Solaris Express running in a Windows 7-based install of VirtualBox, also from Oracle) - in this case, directly replacing Ubuntu (a pre-alpha of Ubuntu 11.04 was the victim being replaced).

    Now, other than the CPU and hard drive, a lot of my hardware is notorious for being Solaris-unfriendly (in particular, the GPU and network hardware) - however, either Sun, just prior to their acquisition by Oracle, or Oracle itself, has done some whipping up into shape, as my AMD HD5450 is now running at a native 1920x1080 via DVI (in VESA mode, it would run at but 1280x1024, so it's certainly not using the VESA driver). Secondly, Flash is now part and parcel of a Solaris desktop installation (this was never the case with a Sun OpenSolaris install; Flash support had to be installed separately). I mentioned the network hardware (in this case, a RealTek RTL8169 gigabit Ethernet adapter) - surprise, surprise; Solaris 11 Express picked it up on the fly. Result - a fully-usable Solaris desktop right from the beginning. (As much as I hate Larry Ellison himself, this is a definite improvement over the last pre-Oracle release of OpenSolaris, which I have the live CD of to compare it with. Advantage: Oracle.)

  10. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by PGHammer View Post
    Irregardless of why he's doing it, he's being treated with scorn for what appears to me as being subjective reasons - basically because he's not toeing the Party Line (Oracle Is Evil).
    If you believe this to be the reason why Kebabbert is being treated with scorn, you are likely unaware of his posting history on multiple forums. Also, seeing the words "not toeing the Party Line" in association with Kebabbert is downright funny; he's adhered to the SUN Party Line stronger than SUN themselves. And now that Oracle has acquired SUN, the trend continues.

    Quote Originally Posted by PGHammer View Post
    Why do I get that impression that the hate is subjective? Simple; you brought one of the more subjective of comments into the debate - the Bible itself. The very reason the Bible (as a book) came into being has been (and will remain) a subject for heavy subjective debate because the original authors and publishers are beyond our ability to put to the question. I'm an agnostic - however, I won't debate the Bible because any debate on it would be subjective.
    You're reading far too much into the comment. Kebabbert is Swedish, and so am I. "Som fan laser bibeln" (like the devil reads the bible) is a common idiom in Swedish. Since the discussion is in English, I translated. The "biblical" origin of the idiom has little to no meaning anymore - Sweden is probably the most secular nation on earth. The idiom is used when someone is interpreting/quoting something very selectively, deliberately taking something out of context and twisting the meaning. Kebabbert does this a lot to "prove" Linux's inferiority to Solaris. My comment really had very little to do with the particular topic at hand, and was more in response to Kebabbert's incredibly flawed approach to arguing his points across a huge number of thread topics on multiple forums over several years.
    So yes - my "attack" was certainly subjective, but it was strictly an attack on Kebbabert's methods of argument, and almost entirely unrelated to the particular thread it appeared in.

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