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Thread: ATi Catalyst crashes after 2 entrances into X.

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by bridgman View Post
    One of your earlier posts suggested you are running Ubuntu 10.10, so it should have KMS and the radeon driver installed by default. Check the bottom of the RadeonFeature wiki page for instructions on how to use the power management options with KMS and radeon.

    If you want to stay with radeonhd, try Option "ForceLowPowerMode" "On" in the Device section of your xorg.conf.
    It does indeed have the KMS and Radeon driver installed by default. I used that driver, and it consumes the power *soooo* fast. RadeonHD is no different.

    I didn't try to options you listed there. Then again, I am also a World of Warcraft player, and while I don't require that it works great - I do require that it runs at all.
    It doesn't. Hundreds of culling errors at the login screen turns into a regular #132 error when the game finishes loading.
    RadeonHD doesn't even run it at all.
    So I end up having to switch back and forth between drivers.

    For me, the only two resolutions are:
    1) The ATi Linux driver team expands in size. I like what you guys are doing, but it's plainly obvious you are understaffed and fighting an uphill battle.
    2) I switch to NVIDIA.

    Since #1 has been repeatedly stated to be not happening due to the fact that your superiors can't see the potentual profit in providing a driver for 1% of the userbase (which is a massive underestimate), I'm forced to pick option 2.

    As for who I contacted - yeah I guess it was AMD. When I go to ati.amd.com I get shifted around a bit between what could be considered the ATi area and the AMD area, which is quite natural since the merger.
    http://www.amd.com/us/aboutamd/conta...ontact-us.aspx -> e-mail us now is what I did.

    I already deleted the e-mail in rage. (I know, that was stupid) and I didn't say an exact quote. I apologize if I came off that way. But basically the brunt of the e-mail constituted something like 'linux, limited support, can't help, want support? Use windows'
    I replied with rage then deleted the mail, basically. I find it rather silly now.

    But hey, if you can help me over this forum I'll stop complaining. I was just pretty angry yesterday because I felt like I had bought a product basically busted by design.

    radeonHD???? really? i think you mean radeon...
    Nah, I tried both. I considered "radeon" default. :P

    ubuntu 10.10 means nothing on hd5000 cards crash on the 2.6.35 kernel.. upgrade to minimum 2.6.36 or better .37 fix that for exampel.

    so really ubuntu means nothing.
    Ubuntu means +-80% of all Linux users so it does mean something.
    I use a Radeon HD4650, so I don't know why you're talking about HD5000's all of a sudden.

    ubuntu 10.10+xorg-edgers+newest ubuntu 10.10 vanilla kernel 2.6.37 gives you a feeling about the radeon driver...

    without that stuff you simply don't use the radeon driver in an usefull way because '''ubuntu''' don't give you an radeon driver in an usefull way!

    the next bigbang catalyst is the catalyst 2011.1 then the catalyst do have nearly the same feature set than the radeon driver.
    This isn't about features. This is about nasty, deal-breaking, killerbugs.

    ubuntu on radeon is useless without newest kernel and xorg-edgers
    I am not a huge fan of changing my kernel. Though, of course, if you can assure me that FGLRX+.37 works (which I somehow doubt because FGLRX is known to be quite a bit behind on supporting new kernels) then I might consider upgrading and, if it works, abort this project.

    really ? i talk similar in another way arround to my computer store

    "no nvidia in my peoples computers if i do the support"

    because of bad chipsets, bump-gate bad chips,not supporting opensource, bad efficeny, not compatible techniques like cuda and physX, and so on and so one.



    in my point of view the catalyst is fine if the 2011.1 catalyst comes out

    on the radeon site just upgrade the kernel and put the xorg-egders on
    You go ahead and do that, I don't care. I cannot fathom why you would have any problems with the NVIDIA blob though. My friend has an identical PC to mine but with a NVIDIA 9600M and it works more than fine under Linux.

    As for incompatible technologies... yeah, God forbid that they try to make some headway compared to ATi.

    Now obviously I haven't heard much of the 11.1 driver. You seem to preach of it like a miracle-cure to all my problems, but I have reserved my judgement. Do tell me more, however. Why is it going to fix anything, exactly?

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ishayu View Post
    It does indeed have the KMS and Radeon driver installed by default. I used that driver, and it consumes the power *soooo* fast. RadeonHD is no different.

    I didn't try to options you listed there. Then again, I am also a World of Warcraft player, and while I don't require that it works great - I do require that it runs at all.
    It doesn't. Hundreds of culling errors at the login screen turns into a regular #132 error when the game finishes loading.
    RadeonHD doesn't even run it at all.
    So I end up having to switch back and forth between drivers.

    For me, the only two resolutions are:
    1) The ATi Linux driver team expands in size. I like what you guys are doing, but it's plainly obvious you are understaffed and fighting an uphill battle.
    2) I switch to NVIDIA.

    Since #1 has been repeatedly stated to be not happening due to the fact that your superiors can't see the potentual profit in providing a driver for 1% of the userbase (which is a massive underestimate), I'm forced to pick option 2.

    As for who I contacted - yeah I guess it was AMD. When I go to ati.amd.com I get shifted around a bit between what could be considered the ATi area and the AMD area, which is quite natural since the merger.
    http://www.amd.com/us/aboutamd/conta...ontact-us.aspx -> e-mail us now is what I did.

    I already deleted the e-mail in rage. (I know, that was stupid) and I didn't say an exact quote. I apologize if I came off that way. But basically the brunt of the e-mail constituted something like 'linux, limited support, can't help, want support? Use windows'
    I replied with rage then deleted the mail, basically. I find it rather silly now.

    But hey, if you can help me over this forum I'll stop complaining. I was just pretty angry yesterday because I felt like I had bought a product basically busted by design.


    Nah, I tried both. I considered "radeon" default. :P


    Ubuntu means +-80% of all Linux users so it does mean something.
    I use a Radeon HD4650, so I don't know why you're talking about HD5000's all of a sudden.



    This isn't about features. This is about nasty, deal-breaking, killerbugs.



    I am not a huge fan of changing my kernel. Though, of course, if you can assure me that FGLRX+.37 works (which I somehow doubt because FGLRX is known to be quite a bit behind on supporting new kernels) then I might consider upgrading and, if it works, abort this project.



    You go ahead and do that, I don't care. I cannot fathom why you would have any problems with the NVIDIA blob though. My friend has an identical PC to mine but with a NVIDIA 9600M and it works more than fine under Linux.

    As for incompatible technologies... yeah, God forbid that they try to make some headway compared to ATi.

    Now obviously I haven't heard much of the 11.1 driver. You seem to preach of it like a miracle-cure to all my problems, but I have reserved my judgement. Do tell me more, however. Why is it going to fix anything, exactly?
    For the Wow issue, you could try r600g. That plus a recent kernel and the right power profiles (as bridgman said) should solve most of your problems.

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ishayu View Post
    It does indeed have the KMS and Radeon driver installed by default. I used that driver, and it consumes the power *soooo* fast. RadeonHD is no different.
    i have this problem on an DESKTOP so really it isn't an notebook problem.

    i run an miniitx system on an 65watt PSU but the cpu is 45watt TDP and the mainboard chipset+hd4250 consumes maybe 15-20 watt+cdrom+harddrive means TDP over maybe 70-75watt...
    right now i write on this system... normaly 75watt on an 65watt PSU this crashes on no time
    so i start to tweak the system 1333ram to 800mhz and on this system i can not downclock the 3ghz cpu so the only way is to downclock the hd4250...
    normal clock is 500mhz and i downclocks it to 200mhz and now the system works stable !!
    and the desktop runs fast and i can not watch any difference in normal use viedos also run fin and desktop effects and so on and so on.
    means you can save 10-15 watt on an hd4250 only by force the clock speed to the lowest level and you will miss nothing.



    Quote Originally Posted by Ishayu View Post
    But hey, if you can help me over this forum I'll stop complaining. I was just pretty angry yesterday because I felt like I had bought a product basically busted by design.
    yes bridgman is the right man but stop being angry because bridgman often wrote here in his free not payed time at home to...

    and remember bridgman isn't an FGLRX/cataylst guy he is the opensource radeon guy...

    means if you wana have support for the catalyst sign an NDA and go into the BETA programm without beta programm no fglrx linux support!

    and you only can go into the beta programm if an beta member invites you.

    ok bridgman is the opensource guy means be frendly because he is the good one



    Quote Originally Posted by Ishayu View Post
    Nah, I tried both. I considered "radeon" default. :P
    Both only means you are upper noob really radeonHD is Death!

    only Radeon is right.



    Quote Originally Posted by Ishayu View Post
    Ubuntu means +-80% of all Linux users so it does mean something.
    I use a Radeon HD4650, so I don't know why you're talking about HD5000's all of a sudden.
    i just do an exampel don't be so egozentric


    Quote Originally Posted by Ishayu View Post
    This isn't about features. This is about nasty, deal-breaking, killerbugs.
    I am not a huge fan of changing my kernel. Though, of course, if you can assure me that FGLRX+.37 works (which I somehow doubt because FGLRX is known to be quite a bit behind on supporting new kernels) then I might consider upgrading and, if it works, abort this project.
    if you do not wana upgrade your kernel the radeon driver does not exist for you.
    thats because the powerconsumsing part means downclock and idle mode is all writen in the kernel means you really need the lastest super uper shit

    10.10 catalyst works up to 2.6.36 fine if you wana have full radeon support you need 2.6.38 (no i dit not wrote .37)

    and xorg-edgers generally chances your ubuntu in an way thats makes your ubuntu complete incompatible to the FGLRX driver

    means if you wana fglrx support sign an NDA in the beta programm and install the 11.1 catalyst alpfa/beta and enjoy the nerly bugfree catalyst version-.

    but if you wana have full opensource support then install .37 kernel or higher and put the xorg-edgers ppa on...




    Quote Originally Posted by Ishayu View Post
    Now obviously I haven't heard much of the 11.1 driver. You seem to preach of it like a miracle-cure to all my problems, but I have reserved my judgement. Do tell me more, however. Why is it going to fix anything, exactly?
    an exampel you watch an youtube movie over flash and flash uses Xv but the catalyst can not give you an bugfree output thats because vsinc is generally broken right now.

    11.1 brings huge desktop fixes working global vsinc means fine Xv means fine bugfree Flash support.

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qaridarium View Post
    i have this problem on an DESKTOP so really it isn't an notebook problem.

    i run an miniitx system on an 65watt PSU but the cpu is 45watt TDP and the mainboard chipset+hd4250 consumes maybe 15-20 watt+cdrom+harddrive means TDP over maybe 70-75watt...
    right now i write on this system... normaly 75watt on an 65watt PSU this crashes on no time
    so i start to tweak the system 1333ram to 800mhz and on this system i can not downclock the 3ghz cpu so the only way is to downclock the hd4250...
    normal clock is 500mhz and i downclocks it to 200mhz and now the system works stable !!
    and the desktop runs fast and i can not watch any difference in normal use viedos also run fin and desktop effects and so on and so on.
    means you can save 10-15 watt on an hd4250 only by force the clock speed to the lowest level and you will miss nothing.
    I never stated it was a laptop problem. I just stated that it was a problem, and that it's really annoying. ANd really I refuse to activate ATi overdrive so I can downclock - because it flips a switch on the hardware so that I lose my warranty. No - a 100% NO.

    yes bridgman is the right man but stop being angry because bridgman often wrote here in his free not payed time at home to...

    and remember bridgman isn't an FGLRX/cataylst guy he is the opensource radeon guy...

    means if you wana have support for the catalyst sign an NDA and go into the BETA programm without beta programm no fglrx linux support!

    and you only can go into the beta programm if an beta member invites you.

    ok bridgman is the opensource guy means be frendly because he is the good one
    Hey, I think Bridgman is awesome. He writes a lot of useful stuff and is very helpful overall. I have no grudge with him.

    I do have a grudge with ATi though - the company itself. The fact that they simply don't install the manpower necessary to make their drivers work. Their Windows driver is kindda shoddy, too.

    Both only means you are upper noob really radeonHD is Death!

    only Radeon is right.
    If you're going to call me a noob, I'm going to call you dysletic.

    See how that works out?

    i just do an exampel don't be so egozentric
    Uhh... right... >_>

    if you do not wana upgrade your kernel the radeon driver does not exist for you.
    thats because the powerconsumsing part means downclock and idle mode is all writen in the kernel means you really need the lastest super uper shit

    10.10 catalyst works up to 2.6.36 fine if you wana have full radeon support you need 2.6.38 (no i dit not wrote .37)
    Interesting. So basically I need a better kernel for the OSS drivers to work. Thanks for that info, very helpful!
    I'm still not going to upgrade my kernel though. Upgrading your kernel usually means you break everything else and I have exams next week, so I'm really not in the mood for that kind of crap right now.

    Also, you did say 2.6.37. Start spellchecking, seriously...

    and xorg-edgers generally chances your ubuntu in an way thats makes your ubuntu complete incompatible to the FGLRX driver

    means if you wana fglrx support sign an NDA in the beta programm and install the 11.1 catalyst alpfa/beta and enjoy the nerly bugfree catalyst version-.

    but if you wana have full opensource support then install .37 kernel or higher and put the xorg-edgers ppa on...
    See, now you said .37 again! xD

    I am not very interested in their beta program. I think their "stable" drivers are unstable as hell, so I can't even imagine what the beta program must be like. *shudders*

    an exampel you watch an youtube movie over flash and flash uses Xv but the catalyst can not give you an bugfree output thats because vsinc is generally broken right now.

    11.1 brings huge desktop fixes working global vsinc means fine Xv means fine bugfree Flash support.
    Well, can't wait for that then! =D
    Unless I've already switched.
    The store has not written back yet.

    Also, I have no problems with flash.
    NO problems with Flash. It works perfect in 10.11. 10.11 really, for me, is just broken because it screws up X somehow on 3rd start.

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ishayu View Post
    I never stated it was a laptop problem. I just stated that it was a problem, and that it's really annoying. ANd really I refuse to activate ATi overdrive so I can downclock - because it flips a switch on the hardware so that I lose my warranty. No - a 100% NO.
    ATI overdrive??? you are mixing stuff here... there is no need to do this on the catalyst because catalyst does perfekt power saving right now.

    and on the radeon there is no "message flips on your screen and tell you you lose your warranty"
    you just use the normal downclock modes in the atombios this is was the catalyst does automatic
    you can set an option to force lowest clock rate in the atom bios.

    this is 200% secure and you will not use your warranty.




    Quote Originally Posted by Ishayu View Post
    Hey, I think Bridgman is awesome. He writes a lot of useful stuff and is very helpful overall. I have no grudge with him.
    I do have a grudge with ATi though - the company itself. The fact that they simply don't install the manpower necessary to make their drivers work. Their Windows driver is kindda shoddy, too.
    you are just miss something because amd is NOT ubuntu...
    ubuntu makes the radeon worst.. thats all.
    ubuntu uses wrong kernel,xorg,xserver,mesa

    newest kernel+xorg-edgers fix that ubuntu problem for you


    windows driver? you miss something again because AMD is not microsoft.

    but yes there is no xorg-egers to fix that microsoft problem on windows




    Quote Originally Posted by Ishayu View Post
    If you're going to call me a noob, I'm going to call you dysletic.
    See how that works out?
    Uhh... right... >_>
    yes you are right... but yes please try to stop using radeonhd





    Quote Originally Posted by Ishayu View Post
    Interesting. So basically I need a better kernel for the OSS drivers to work. Thanks for that info, very helpful!
    I'm still not going to upgrade my kernel though. Upgrading your kernel usually means you break everything else and I have exams next week, so I'm really not in the mood for that kind of crap right now.
    Also, you did say 2.6.37. Start spellchecking, seriously...
    See, now you said .37 again! xD
    i use rc kernels over years now but for exampel the 2.6.36 kernel is stable right now...

    so i'm really sorry to have exams next week ...






    Quote Originally Posted by Ishayu View Post
    I am not very interested in their beta program. I think their "stable" drivers are unstable as hell, so I can't even imagine what the beta program must be like. *shudders*
    you just miss something ... there is high skilled direct DEV support for the beta members also for the stable catalyst versions.

    years ago i use every alpfa and beta catalyst released in the beta programm withoeut being in the beta programm ...

    and i can tell you the alpfa/beta versions mostly just better than the stable versions out there in the wild.

    thats because the alpfa is 2 month in the future and the beta is 1 month in the future and most of the time the new stable do not get any chances 30 days before release means they just wait for the microsoft driver cerdification for the windows driver.

    means in real you just get the stable driver 30 days before relase and a bugfixes beta driver more than 1 month before release.

    and sometimes the alpfa works just best... because if there comes big bugfixes the alpfa get in first means sometimes the alpfa works just fine if you are beaten by an bug in the stable.

    on the beta programm you can just chose your favorit driver of 3-4 driver versions.


    in short words if you wana get support for the catalyst join the beta thats because 'bridgman' is a noob with the catalyst because he runs the radeon driver and he is expert for the opensource driver and he really try to help catalyst people to but he can't

    he can't because amd hold the bugs of the catalyst unter NDA
    you only get true informations of your bug if you sign an NDA
    i often leak informations of the catalyst beta programm in the past
    and bridgman lost his job if he leak NDA informations.

    if you wana stay on the catalyst you are just lost if you think bridgman can tell you any 'truenes'

    he just can't

    for exampel kano is not in the beta programm but kano do have higher skill in the catalyst driver than bridgman... and kano is not payed by amd..

    yes you sure can use bridgman but in that way : "hey bridgman can you ask the catalyst/beta team this ''.......'' question "

    then he ask the question to an catalyst expert for you...

    but if amd don't wana give you that information bridgman will not answer you or he answers with no text message.




    Quote Originally Posted by Ishayu View Post
    Well, can't wait for that then! =D
    Unless I've already switched.
    The store has not written back yet.
    Also, I have no problems with flash.
    NO problems with Flash. It works perfect in 10.11. 10.11 really, for me, is just broken because it screws up X somehow on 3rd start.
    fine... in my point of view its simple just downclock the gpu on radeon..

  6. #16
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    I can't really be bothered with the whole quotewar thing but...

    I just recieved word that my graphics card is integrated, so no replacing it.

    FUCK
    MY
    LIFE
    SUCKS

    *sob*

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ishayu View Post
    I can't really be bothered with the whole quotewar thing but...

    I just recieved word that my graphics card is integrated, so no replacing it.

    FUCK
    MY
    LIFE
    SUCKS

    *sob*
    http://kernel.ubuntu.com/~kernel-ppa/mainline/

    https://launchpad.net/~xorg-edgers/+archive/ppa

    or upgrade to Ubuntu 11.04 Natty Narwhal

    Power managment settings for the radeon driver:

    http://www.x.org/wiki/radeonBuildHow...wer-management

  8. #18
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    didn't he say that he played world of warcraft though? Is that really playable on the open source drive?

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by neuron View Post
    didn't he say that he played world of warcraft though? Is that really playable on the open source drive?
    on the galium3D driver,,

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qaridarium View Post
    on the galium3D driver,,
    I had no idea the Gallium3D driver was so far along! :O
    Ace.

    How's the power management in it? Might have to go for it.

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