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Thread: Miguel's Ambitious Plans For Mono, Moonlight

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  1. #1
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    Default Miguel's Ambitious Plans For Mono, Moonlight

    Phoronix: Miguel's Ambitious Plans For Mono, Moonlight

    Miguel de Icaza has put out a new blog post last night detailing what he and his team at Novell are "cooking" for future versions of their Mono software platform. Some items, like Mono GPU acceleration, are already known, but some of the other items are quite interesting on this long TODO list of new items to be presented within Mono and Moonlight (the Mono-based Microsoft Silverlight implementation for Linux) over the next few months...

    http://www.phoronix.com/vr.php?view=ODg5Mw

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    I really don't understand why Novell is burning money on this stuff. Reimplementing .Net for Linux costs a LOT of money and developer time, and there is not a single indication that the community cares in the least. 6 years later and what do we have? Banshee.

    Do they deliver some high-end solutions based on Mono or something? Plan to attack Oracle with an alternative Java implementation? Is there a point to all this?

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    Quote Originally Posted by pingufunkybeat View Post
    I really don't understand why Novell is burning money on this stuff. Reimplementing .Net for Linux costs a LOT of money and developer time, and there is not a single indication that the community cares in the least. 6 years later and what do we have? Banshee.

    Do they deliver some high-end solutions based on Mono or something? Plan to attack Oracle with an alternative Java implementation? Is there a point to all this?
    MonoTouch e.g. is providing an income for them and the upcoming Mono Android product is likely also turn a coin for them.

    Aside that they are using Mono for many of their internal and external projects. There is a community of developers using it for Linux and specifically GNOME applications. Tomboy e.g. is a GNOME core component and is written using Mono.

    Mono is making them money, and it is making their jobs easier by providing. That is why they do it, and to give everyone better tools of course. It is an investment and they are seeing a return from it, so are we.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DavidNielsen View Post
    Tomboy e.g. is a GNOME core component and is written using Mono.
    That's not a very convincing argument.

    Banshee, F-Spot and Tomboy are the only Mono-using OSS applications with any usage, and two of them have been more or less deprecated by distros.

    That leaves Banshee for people who refuse to use Amarok and Rhythmbox.

    You're probably right, and Novell is having some use from that, and they probably feel safer being in bed with Microsoft than being in bed with Oracle.

    Still, they could have used Python and saved a few million $$$. It probably owes its prolonged existence to Miguel's very high position within Novell. If he ever leaves, I expect Mono to be abandoned overnight.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pingufunkybeat View Post
    That's not a very convincing argument.
    Never the less it is true and valid, but this is at any rate merely an example of the applications Mono has for the fairly narrow scope of the GNOME desktop, Mono is much wider applied than the Linux desktop to great success.

    I will though readily admit that the GNOME bindings for Mono are not as good as they should be. This is something about which I could speak more but it feels like it would be off-topic, the summary though is that it is getting better, we have a plan, code is starting to appear and a GNOME foundation supported Mono+GNOME love hackfest is being planned to address these issues as well.

    And still, Mono has so many more applications that it seems trivial to always focus on icons for users to click on to hear sweet music.

    MonoTouch e.g. is used in multiple of the most popular games section on the iPhone (so I am informed, I do not have an iPod, I sadly am stuck with an N900 for which I have growing amounts of hate).

    Banshee, F-Spot and Tomboy are the only Mono-using OSS applications with any usage, and two of them have been more or less deprecated by distros.

    That leaves Banshee for people who refuse to use Amarok and Rhythmbox.
    The biggest desktop distribution (Ubuntu) still ships Tomboy, and have committed to switching to Banshee for the upcoming 11.04 release. A process the Banshee community is highly invested in to fulfill the job (I say this wearing my Banshee developer hat for clarity).

    They did admittedly switch to Shotwell from F-Spot, out of fears that the F-Spot community would not be able to revive the codebase and build a community capable of maintaining it. So far Ruben who stepped up as the new maintainer of F-Spot has managed to revive the codebase and make it compile in MonoDevelop as well as share code with Banshee (he stepped up to the plate on the day before the decision was officially made). Thus laying the foundation for a small but growing and productive community around F-Spot. Progress though has slowed a bit after Ruben, who remains the superstar developer of that project, has had less time to devote to F-Spot. I think time will favor F-Spot provided the community continues to grow at the current rate. A prediction would be that F-Spot may be considered for the default once again. It would make sense since upgrades from the last LTS would still have F-Spot and that release they have to maintain for years. They are already invested in F-Spot and will continue to be so. Shotwell probably isn't a bad application either, though I have not tried it extensively.

    You're probably right, and Novell is having some use from that, and they probably feel safer being in bed with Microsoft than being in bed with Oracle.
    You say in bed, I say made a business deal to the benefit of both involved and one that has resulted in great benefits for Novell, Linux and has helped Microsoft starting to open up.

    No comment on Oracle, them boys crazy, they'll pop anyone with anything no matter how thin to turn a buck. Ah capitalism and sociopathy, a match made in heaven. Hardly the image of Microsoft today, with what 4-5 Patent infringement suits filed in the history of their existence and the increasing engaging Open Source more on our terms.

    Still, they could have used Python and saved a few million $$$. It probably owes its prolonged existence to Miguel's very high position within Novell. If he ever leaves, I expect Mono to be abandoned overnight.
    If Mono is abandoned by Novell, I am sure Miguel would be the first person to start a company to develop it, taking with him many of the people working on it now. It makes money and it is what he loves. Then the situation wouldn't be to dissimilar from when he ran Ximian and started the project to ease development. Mono was one of the reasons Novell acquired Ximian for 50 million dollars. They saw it was a good investment.

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    A Mono-related thread, it's been some time since we've had one of those! Oh dear, let's see what kind of crazies will show up this time.

    Quote Originally Posted by pingufunkybeat View Post
    I really don't understand why Novell is burning money on this stuff. Reimplementing .Net for Linux costs a LOT of money and developer time, and there is not a single indication that the community cares in the least. 6 years later and what do we have? Banshee.

    Do they deliver some high-end solutions based on Mono or something? Plan to attack Oracle with an alternative Java implementation? Is there a point to all this?
    Yes, there is a point. With Mono, business can (and do) migrate from Windows Freaking Server to Linux. Not everything is rosy but the stack works and that's great.

    Another reason: Mono provides one of the best (if not *the* best) scripting solution today for games. It's trivial to embed, it's fast, simple, interoperates with native code marvelously and has great IDEs, debuggers and profilers.

    Third, this "alternative Java implementation" is one of the most pleasant programming languages available today. The only one that comes close is Python but that's a wholly different paradigm.

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    Well at least the marketing dept is paid well. Every feature comes as a buzzword.

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    And yet, we still don't have DRM to play Netflix. Nice move Microshaft.

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    Quote Originally Posted by williamthrilliam View Post
    And yet, we still don't have DRM to play Netflix. Nice move Microshaft.
    That really is NetFlix being the problem. If you want to use NetFlix on Linux simply tell them that you will subscribe if they lean on Microsoft as a large client of theirs to push for Linux support to be a priority. That way you are much more likely to gain access to the content. And when you pledge support, if they follow through, so do you. Re-enforce that when they do something you like, you reward them, with money, your money.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DavidNielsen View Post
    That really is NetFlix being the problem. If you want to use NetFlix on Linux simply tell them that you will subscribe if they lean on Microsoft as a large client of theirs to push for Linux support to be a priority. That way you are much more likely to gain access to the content. And when you pledge support, if they follow through, so do you. Re-enforce that when they do something you like, you reward them, with money, your money.
    This is the whole fucking point;

    You are implementing Microsoft's technology, using the argument that it's an open standard.

    So why do you need Netflix to "lean on Microsoft" to force them to do this and that? It's an open standard, isn't it?

    That's what you get for implementing MS standards. You implement everything and in the end nothing works, and you have a patent lawsuit looming. Good job.

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