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Thread: To the AMD people: Money wasted.

  1. #21
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    First of all, I am no noob. I've gone from Ubuntu to Debian to Arch and back to Debian. Windows is no where near my pc and has not been for a long time.

    Truly amazing how you jerks (Kirurgs, droidhacker) came to such conclusions from only two posts - Sherlock Holmes would be thrilled. And "DroidHacker" - seriously? You think by simply using Linux you are a hacker? My, the government must be all over you...
    In all cases, Kirurgs, droidhacker - if you have nothing constructive to say then get out of my thread.

    Second, my problems exist in all of Debian, Ubuntu and Arch. I test every new driver that AMD releases on all these 3 distros. I deal with facts rather than being a fanboy as some here are. You see AMD giving some support to FOSS and all of a sudden they are heros to you. People, quit settling for scraps...




    Quote Originally Posted by evolution View Post
    1- Yes, I've some (little) tearing in my videos, but I can use HW acceleration with VAAPI (even if it's a bit rudimentary and sometimes doesn't work due to driver updates). And after all, you also have this problem on Windows (although it seems to not happen so frequently).
    Tearing does not occur with my Nvidia card in any distro. Tearing does not occur with the AMD or nVidia card in Windows. nVidia does not tear even without HW acceleration.

    Quote Originally Posted by evolution View Post
    2- No 3D acceleration?! It might be a problem you have. Most people here doesn't have it. Furthermore, I can play almost all my games in Linux at very acceptable framerates (some even faster than on Windows).
    The problem is not 3D acceleration but the crashing of WINE games as soon as they start - incompatibility with WINE. On the few games that do not crash after 1 minute, playability is fine. But those games that do not crash on me are few. Tomb Raider Anniversary runs great but Underworld is not playable in AMD. Does on nvidia.

    Quote Originally Posted by evolution View Post
    3- No games with Wine?! I can play some DX9 games such as FarCry, Max Payne2 or similar ones without any major glithces. HL2 has some little issues, but mostly of the time works properly (at least for me).
    See above. Also I am on a 5070, what's your card?

    Quote Originally Posted by evolution View Post
    4- Bad Linux support? I think we also have to blame linux kernel dev's because they're always changing the DRM stack.
    Were there more collaboration between AMD and kernel devs this would not be such a problem.

    Quote Originally Posted by evolution View Post
    5- Xorg dev's are also a bit "narrowminded", and sometimes, seem to forget about the existence of proprietary blobs. If they didn't exist, there wouldn't be any multimedia workstations using Linux.
    This is a common problem with all FOSS hard asses. But seriously, the FOSS model kicks the proprietary model's butt. Were there proper documentation and support provided by nVidia and AMD, there would be no need for a blob and all multimedia workstations would trample Windows multimedia workstations under foot.

    Quote Originally Posted by evolution View Post
    1- I don't understand why in (some) older releases, my r600 cards worked properly with UVD DxVA and VAAPI acceleration. Now, I can't get them to work... And I think it's a bad policy if you are really disabling driver features, because not every people buys a new laptop every 3 years (like me, for instance...)
    No no, the *next* card has early support - Mr Bridgman said so. Semi functional but early support. Keep buying new cards - we are cows you know, ready to be milked.

    Quote Originally Posted by evolution View Post
    2- I don't know what really is your support (for instance, bug reporting, driver feedback, etc.) for Linux, but it seems, at least, almost negligible. And it's not good to "forget" your users (even if they're just a few).
    Graphics card companies do not provide any of the things you mentioned and call it support. "We (AMD) support you by placing one dev on an unofficial forum to lobby instead of providing an official site for driver bug reporting and feedback".

    Quote Originally Posted by evolution View Post
    Finally, I'm going to talk about some "nice" nVidia stories (real facts):

    - I've a few colleagues (in my graduation course), that bought laptops with GF9xxx and GF8xxx cards (because of the CUDA support). Guess what?
    They were severly affected by design faults in their cards. After the guarantee time ended (in about 3 years), most of their laptops stopped to work. And the fail? nVidia cards. Because the guarantee time expired... you know the rest of the story.

    - There are also some problems recently with nVidia. In recent Xorg releases, I've found ATI is catching up compatibility earlier than nVidia counterpart driver. Furthermore, Some recent drivers also caused overheating with nVidia cards.
    Btw, I think nVidia is better than ATI at the driver's kernel support, (it seems to be more agnostic to kernel updates) and driver features (the interface seems to be more user-friendly).

    So, as I said in the beginning, not everything in nVidia's land is "green"...
    I never said nVidia was wonderful. It's support for FOSS is null. But it does provide a proper proprietary driver at least - something we can use.



    As a c programmer I can describe my ATI experience in Linux:

    for (AS_LONG_AS_I_OWN_ATI_CARD) {
    remove_card(NVIDIA);
    insert_card(ATI);
    if (test_driver(FGLRX)) {
    break; //Unreachable.
    }
    remove_card(ATI);
    insert_card(NVIDIA);
    sleep(MONTH);
    }

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qaridarium View Post
    you are right wine support is very important

    but you are wrong about the radeon driver because they support all wine specific openGL extensions in openGL3.x/4.x

    the only point radeon lose is the law and order politic because S3TC is needed but Patented means its again the law to support that.

    in germany/europe all software patents are valid if they are linked to an hardware feature.

    means you beat the OS driver team for stay in law and order.

    thats not very nice.

    "all" i only talk about the tearing bug.

    and i do not make fun on you.

    do you know? giving away NDA informations are dangerous because again the law and you beat me because i light you up?

    are you serious ?


    I sir have not beaten you up but do think there is a language barrier here. I was not making fun of you and respect all forum members. Obviously though, from the posted replies of other members here, not all share my respect.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr James View Post
    I sir have not beaten you up but do think there is a language barrier here. I was not making fun of you and respect all forum members. Obviously though, from the posted replies of other members here, not all share my respect.
    I've refrained from posting so far, but you didn't show much respect to Mr Bridgman.

    Going back to the original post of this thread (sorry, but you don't own the thread, it's not yours, by creating this thread you'll have to accept other people are free to post in it) most of the problems you have stem not only from the drivers (open source, proprietary, doesn't matter) but also from other areas of linux.
    If you use OpenGL for video playback, enable vsync. This is recommended by AMD themselves.
    2D tearing (and by that I assume you mean a composited environment) also has difficulties in how X is setup, but apparently that still the fault of drivers.
    I also don't see any linux advertising features by the way, so don't know where you get much of your information from.
    As for having a go at AMD for your perceived lack of enthusiasm for open source drivers by them, as has already been pointed out, it was the community that wanted the documention and would handle the rest. AMD have done that, and more. It's undeniably for business reasons (I don't think they've done so out of any sense of kindness), but it's still a Good Thing (TM), and they're still actively supporting and developing the drivers.
    So stop acting like the world owes you a favour.

  4. #24
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    Hi!

    Mr James, just be a bit more polite...
    Everything you write is already written here hundreds of times, the same is written in nvnews forums about nvidia.
    Bashing in forums won't help you and there will be the day you'll understand that

    That said, I'm out of your thread...

    regards
    Kirurgs

  5. #25
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    @Mr James

    It is more easy to use a 2nd or 3rd pc to test ati I do only short tests with my cards when a new driver is out to see whats broken now... Also i compare benchmarks, 10-12 really fixed the opengl performance on WIN - this was not the case with 10-11, only a 10-10 hotfix driver had the same performance.

    xvba testing is not that funny, maybe they manage to fix l5.1 wich the new sdk, but it would be nice when the needed lib would be shipped too

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by mirv View Post
    I've refrained from posting so far, but you didn't show much respect to Mr Bridgman.

    Going back to the original post of this thread (sorry, but you don't own the thread, it's not yours, by creating this thread you'll have to accept other people are free to post in it) most of the problems you have stem not only from the drivers (open source, proprietary, doesn't matter) but also from other areas of linux.
    If you use OpenGL for video playback, enable vsync. This is recommended by AMD themselves.
    2D tearing (and by that I assume you mean a composited environment) also has difficulties in how X is setup, but apparently that still the fault of drivers.
    I also don't see any linux advertising features by the way, so don't know where you get much of your information from.
    As for having a go at AMD for your perceived lack of enthusiasm for open source drivers by them, as has already been pointed out, it was the community that wanted the documention and would handle the rest. AMD have done that, and more. It's undeniably for business reasons (I don't think they've done so out of any sense of kindness), but it's still a Good Thing (TM), and they're still actively supporting and developing the drivers.
    So stop acting like the world owes you a favour.
    Thanks for your input.

    1. I did not disrespect Mr Bridgman. I am grateful that he is around in the forums and from reading his posts in the past, see him as a nice and very helpful guy. Whenever I refer to him in my posts I am refering to AMD and it's support - as he is a representative of sorts. My "disrespectful" posting as you put it are not an attack on Mr Bridgman but a display of my anger with AMD's inability to provide me with a proper Linux driver.

    2. No I do not own the thread but as the starter of it I requested that those who attacked me, by presuming from two posts that I am a noob among other assumptions based on nothing, to either post something constructive or get out - oh how unreasonable of me...

    3. Yes I got VSync turned up all the way in catalyst.

    4. Tearing exists composited desktop or not - Used OpenBox ONLY without xcompmgr and the like in Arch previously for the learning experience and to see what all the fuss was about (discovered that the 1337 way of doing things = more work to do the same thing, more often than not, just for the sake of it).

    5. AMD advertises Linux support by the act of providing a driver.

    6. As I said earlier, FOSS devs wanting to go their own way and not including AMD devs in the loop has nothing to do with AMD's responsibility to provide a working proprietary driver. Either provide a working driver of none at all - that way one could avoid this whole mess altogether and look elsewhere.

    7. The world does not owe me a favor and I didn't ask for one. I asked that AMD provide me with a working driver - as I paid money for my card and AMD claims Linux support, it is my right as a consumer to demand it and yours also.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kirurgs View Post
    Hi!

    Mr James, just be a bit more polite...
    Everything you write is already written here hundreds of times, the same is written in nvnews forums about nvidia.
    Bashing in forums won't help you and there will be the day you'll understand that

    That said, I'm out of your thread...

    regards
    Kirurgs
    I am impulsive by nature and for that apologize.
    But - You called me a noob from two posts among other things. Not cool.

    Written hundreds of times only means it has to be written a hundred more times as they obviously have not gotten the point it yet - more voices must heard by them if you ever want to see us being treated seriously - think politics: without public uproar due to grievances with the government and corrupt rulers sent to the gallows, there would be no democracy or freedom - only the raping abusing of citizens.

    I asked you to leave the thread UNLESS you have something constructive to say - which I am sure you do so do it. Sorry if I unintentionally hurt you, man.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kano View Post
    @Mr James

    It is more easy to use a 2nd or 3rd pc to test ati I do only short tests with my cards when a new driver is out to see whats broken now... Also i compare benchmarks, 10-12 really fixed the opengl performance on WIN - this was not the case with 10-11, only a 10-10 hotfix driver had the same performance.

    xvba testing is not that funny, maybe they manage to fix l5.1 wich the new sdk, but it would be nice when the needed lib would be shipped too
    Thats when you got a 2nd and 3rd pc to test

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr James View Post
    Thanks for your input.

    1. I did not disrespect Mr Bridgman. I am grateful that he is around in the forums and from reading his posts in the past, see him as a nice and very helpful guy. Whenever I refer to him in my posts I am refering to AMD and it's support - as he is a representative of sorts. My "disrespectful" posting as you put it are not an attack on Mr Bridgman but a display of my anger with AMD's inability to provide me with a proper Linux driver.

    2. No I do not own the thread but as the starter of it I requested that those who attacked me, by presuming from two posts that I am a noob among other assumptions based on nothing, to either post something constructive or get out - oh how unreasonable of me...

    3. Yes I got VSync turned up all the way in catalyst.

    4. Tearing exists composited desktop or not - Used OpenBox ONLY without xcompmgr and the like in Arch previously for the learning experience and to see what all the fuss was about (discovered that the 1337 way of doing things = more work to do the same thing, more often than not, just for the sake of it).

    5. AMD advertises Linux support by the act of providing a driver.

    6. As I said earlier, FOSS devs wanting to go their own way and not including AMD devs in the loop has nothing to do with AMD's responsibility to provide a working proprietary driver. Either provide a working driver of none at all - that way one could avoid this whole mess altogether and look elsewhere.

    7. The world does not owe me a favor and I didn't ask for one. I asked that AMD provide me with a working driver - as I paid money for my card and AMD claims Linux support, it is my right as a consumer to demand it and yours also.
    1. All AMD's fault, all AMD's fault, all AMD's fault, waaaaah. Sorry to say, but that's essentially what you did directly to Mr Bridgman, even though you're probably aware that he's mainly responsible for just the OSS side of AMD's graphics division. If you're going to be snooty, expect a snooty reply.

    2. Won't waste my time anymore here.

    3. - What program are you using by the way? Vsync works perfect for me with mplayer. Other programs use their own settings and sometimes ignore amdcccle.

    4. I don't get tearing in 2D. Actually I don't hear of anyone getting tearing in 2D without composite. So dunno, take from that what you will.

    5. They also state which distros they support. Arch is not amongst them. They provide drivers, but are not responsible for issues with GNOME/KDE/etc. Nowhere is it advertised "tear free support for all time in every conceivable application" - or did I miss something?

    6. Works the other way too - FOSS issues are not the responsibility of AMD. Where do you draw the line? I'll also note that AMD's drivers work fine for me (closed source).

    7. As I just noted, it works for me. Seeing none of your problems. Maybe instead of trying to point fingers, your time would be better spent figuring out what's actually going wrong.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by mirv View Post
    1. All AMD's fault, all AMD's fault, all AMD's fault, waaaaah. Sorry to say, but that's essentially what you did directly to Mr Bridgman, even though you're probably aware that he's mainly responsible for just the OSS side of AMD's graphics division. If you're going to be snooty, expect a snooty reply.

    2. Won't waste my time anymore here.

    3. - What program are you using by the way? Vsync works perfect for me with mplayer. Other programs use their own settings and sometimes ignore amdcccle.

    4. I don't get tearing in 2D. Actually I don't hear of anyone getting tearing in 2D without composite. So dunno, take from that what you will.

    5. They also state which distros they support. Arch is not amongst them. They provide drivers, but are not responsible for issues with GNOME/KDE/etc. Nowhere is it advertised "tear free support for all time in every conceivable application" - or did I miss something?

    6. Works the other way too - FOSS issues are not the responsibility of AMD. Where do you draw the line? I'll also note that AMD's drivers work fine for me (closed source).

    7. As I just noted, it works for me. Seeing none of your problems. Maybe instead of trying to point fingers, your time would be better spent figuring out what's actually going wrong.
    You are right. My bad. I'm to blame. AMD support is absolute perfection and their drivers are perfect in every way - all of Linux is to blame, not AMD, especially since my nVidia card runs correctly. Sorry for wasting your time and others. I am obviously a troll and do not know what I am doing or saying.

    Oh, by the way, regarding the posts on this board, especially the "Catalyst X.X just released" threads, looks like I am not the only one experiencing problems. But to you I guess I am the only one.

    I wash my hands of this madness.

    Thanks to you and to all that responded.

    James.

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