AMD Phenom II TDP and underclokcing / undervolting

[crazycheese]

If you think Atom/ION/Zambezi is too slow you either using it not as HTPC, or watching 9000x18000 movie.

[-hanky-]

If you think Atom/ION/Zambezi is too slow you either using it not as HTPC, or watching 9000x18000 movie.

I don't think that Atom/ION/Zambezi is too slow to watch high definition movies (at least ION isn't, UVD under linux is just a pain in the ass at the moment, no idea if or when it gets better).

I just said that it makes no sense for him to change to such a system if he wants to upgrade, because clearly even his 4850e is faster than the fastest available atom cpu (or a comparable cpu from AMD, like the e-350).

I also didn't ask him to buy a new cpu+motherboard, i just mentioned that it might be worth a thought.

Anyway, here some interesting test results (sorry, it's in german, but I think the graphs speak for itself):

http://www.tomshardware.de/32nm-Sand...-240701-7.html

We are talking about 26W difference already in idle (2500k vs 1100T). And that's without any undervolting. Under load there is a difference of more than 100W (!).

So I think it's definitely worth thinking about spending more money and take the Intel system.

Of course, if he doesn't need more performance anyway, there is no need to upgrade. Then he should keep his current cpu and buy a cheap geforce card, like the GT430 as you mentioned.

If he wants and/or needs more performance then he should consider the Core i5 as a possible alternative to an AMD hexacore.

Nevertheless, in both cases there is simply no need for an ATOM-like system.

By the way, you really want to recommend an ATOM/ION system to someone using gentoo?

[crazycheese]

I don't think that Atom/ION/Zambezi is too slow to watch high definition movies (at least ION isn't, UVD under linux is just a pain in the ass at the moment, no idea if or when it gets better).

I agree.

I just said that it makes no sense for him to change to such a system if he wants to upgrade, because clearly even his 4850e is faster than the fastest available atom cpu (or a comparable cpu from AMD, like the e-350).

I also didn't ask him to buy a new cpu+motherboard, i just mentioned that it might be worth a thought.

But he will need a new motherboard. I agree that current AMD systems are not energy efficient, but they are "bang for the buck". Unfortunately, dependent on where he lives, the energy bill bond to AMD will remove any advantage in the mid run. This is if he uses no video acceleration. Things will change with nvidias (blobby blob) VDPAU.

Anyway, here some interesting test results (sorry, it's in german, but I think the graphs speak for itself):

http://www.tomshardware.de/32nm-Sand...-240701-7.html

Ich hab sogar etwas noch besseres =) Sieh mal:
http://techreport.com/articles.x/18448/4 bes. Energy per Task Graph.
http://phoronix.com/forums/showthrea...ger&highlight= Reasons for K10 inefficiency and reason for AMD Athlon II x4 being rated at Phenom' II 1.4v Vcore, instead of pretty stable 1.2v

So I think it's definitely worth thinking about spending more money and take the Intel system.

If energy cost in his country is rather cheap - no, if its Germany - pretty much yes, but if he lives in Germany and has power plant in the backyard - again no (don't ask where I got his ).

Of course, if he doesn't need more performance anyway, there is no need to upgrade. Then he should keep his current cpu and buy a cheap geforce card, like the GT430 as you mentioned.

If he wants and/or needs more performance then he should consider the Core i5 as a possible alternative to an AMD hexacore.

Nevertheless, in both cases there is simply no need for an ATOM-like system.

1. He upgrades to hexacore or similar and downclocks it a bit. He gets better performance for existing system, but larger energy bill as well. The investment is around 150$
2. He keeps the hardware and gets the card with HW accel(thats nvidia blobby blob). He gets a bit bigger energy bill, a dependence to proprietary driver; but rather small investment(50$).
3. He gets ION system and keeps the hardware. His energy bill may go up a bit (30W full load, cmmon) or may go down a bit (using htpc for media instead of main rig) and does not need to mess his computer with anything HTPC related. Price is 100$
4. He gets an intel system and sells his own. 200-250 compensated by 70-40 if he manages to sell his old system. I don't know how good intel gfx drivers are. Sandy bridge gfx is still unusable in linux right now with 1156 hardware being already abadoned and 13xx socket eating up same amount of energy in idle as AMD. Though his energy bill goes down to some good extent in the long run, true, he still will have one machine.

By the way, you really want to recommend an ATOM/ION system to someone using gentoo?

Yes, its efficient silent box. You can compile on it 24h/7 or just leave it for 2 days for basic setup - really not a problem, you won't upgrade further anyway and even then he can unmask only the critical packages. Or he can use gentoo-based precooked distro (calculate, sabayon xbmc etc). Or even non-gentoo precooked media-center distro. I had a friend that used Slackware on single core atom, he didn't complain. Eats barely, performs barely, heats barely, small package.

[-hanky-]

First of all: Although we definitely don't have the same opinion, it's a very interesting discussion.

Just some remarks to your posting:

But he will need a new motherboard. I agree that current AMD systems are not energy efficient, but they are "bang for the buck". Unfortunately, dependent on where he lives, the energy bill bond to AMD will remove any advantage in the mid run. This is if he uses no video acceleration. Things will change with nvidias (blobby blob) VDPAU.

I have to confess, i thought that he already uses a nvidia card at the moment, but i just checked his first post and he didn't mention it. So he would have to buy board + cpu+ (cheap) graphics card. If that's the case he should in fact consider to just buy a new graphics card instead of upgrading the cpu.

3. He gets ION system and keeps the hardware. His energy bill may go up a bit (30W full load, cmmon) or may go down a bit (using htpc for media instead of main rig) and does not need to mess his computer with anything HTPC related. Price is 100$

If he wants to keep (and use) his current hardware, he will not only have to buy a an ION system (cpu + board), but also ram, hdd, tower, power supply. I wouldn't do that.

4. He gets an intel system and sells his own. 200-250 compensated by 70-40 if he manages to sell his old system. I don't know how good intel gfx drivers are. Sandy bridge gfx is still unusable in linux right now with 1156 hardware being already abadoned and 13xx socket eating up same amount of energy in idle as AMD. Though his energy bill goes down to some good extent in the long run, true, he still will have one machine.

I don't know much about the intel gfx drivers either, but shouldn't the rest of the sandy bridge hardware be supported by a current kernel? He would require a graphics card anyway, because afaik you can only use integrated graphics with a core i3.

Yes, its efficient silent box. You can compile on it 24h/7 or just leave it for 2 days for basic setup - really not a problem, you won't upgrade further anyway and even then he can unmask only the critical packages. Or he can use gentoo-based precooked distro (calculate, sabayon xbmc etc). Or even non-gentoo precooked media-center distro. I had a friend that used Slackware on single core atom, he didn't complain. Eats barely, performs barely, heats barely, small package.

Well, you should express it like this: You have to compile 24/7 with such a system... No, seriously: Especially if you do such cpu intensive things like compiling, all the advantages of an atom system are gone. It consumes less power idle and under load, but you may not forget that a hexacore or a core i5 is more than 7-8 times faster. Do the math - an atom cpu is much less energy efficient under this circumstances.
If the thread starter doesn't need more power, he should just keep his current setup - it is about two times faster than an atom system and has low power consumption, too. If he needs more power, an atom system is the wrong choice.

Of course he could change board, cpu and switch to precompiled packages, too, but he would still spend money to actually downgrade his system, which frankly makes no sense to me.

Anyway, i should get some hours of sleep now

-hanky-

P.S.: Who in germany has a power plant in the backyard?