ATI Support For PowerPlay on MacBook Pro

[dpope]

Over at the mactel development list we're hoping with every new release that ATI will fix a stupid and presumably minute bug that makes, at least for me, then new revision Core 2 Duo MacBook Pros essentially unusable under linux. This laptop unfortunately has an ATI radeon mobility X1600 card and, while the older version of the notebook (with the core duo processor) had exactly the same card and had support for power states, for some reason in the new revision ATI's buggy driver thinks the card does not support powerstates. This means that the card is always burning maximum power which makes the new revision run much hotter than its almost identilcal core duo predecessor. This sounds like a very simple bug to fix but its almost impossible to report this to ATI since they don't provide laptop support and Apple certainly is not interested in debugging a Linux problem. Anyone have any ideas how to get their attention on this (at least simple) issue? Michael, with your considerable access to ATI's developers do you have any idea how to get them to respond to a bug report? We've had something posted on the unofficial bugzilla site for months now with no effect:

http://ati.cchtml.com/show_bug.cgi?id=608

Has anyone seen this kind of problem on other core 2 duo laptops?

[Michael]

Does XP with PowerPlay on the MacBook Pro work for you?

[Michael]

Also, could you post the X log? It would help AMD in figuring out the problem.

[dpope]

Also, could you post the X log? It would help AMD in figuring out the problem.

Thanks for all the help Michael. I tried to append my Xorg.0.log but it was too large to be a valid post. Is there an address I can email it to or somewhere else I can post it? I think you can email me as a forum administrator and I'll just respond with the log file.

Another point which might be worth mentioning to the developers (though they probably already know this) is that Intel has released a tool called PowerTOP for Linux (which I think you've perhaps covered on Phoronix) which profiles how frequently apps wake up the CPU and it seems that on the MBPs USB and fglrx are the worst offenders. Since most linux users with ATI cards are probably laptop users (since I think linux users would not buy a stand-alone ATI card if given the option) it would be good (and probably easy) for them to take a look at such power consumption issues which might be easier to fix than performance.

Oh, and I don't have XP installed so I can't say. I'll post on the mactel-list and see if anyone can answer this question. Just to make it clear this is not an isolated issue - no one with a new rev MacBook Pro seems to be able to get powerplay to work with any kernel/fglrx combo.

thanks

[Michael]

From your log:

(II) fglrx(0): POWERplay not supported on this hardware

PowerPlay relies upon a BIOS feature which is lacking in the case of the Apple MacBook Pro. I was told by AMD that the Lenovo T60/T60p are the only Linux laptops technically supported for PowerPlay and fglrx, but of course many other notebook and desktop PCs will usually work with PowerPlay.

[dpope]

From your log:



PowerPlay relies upon a BIOS feature which is lacking in the case of the Apple MacBook Pro. I was told by AMD that the Lenovo T60/T60p are the only Linux laptops technically supported for PowerPlay and fglrx, but of course many other notebook and desktop PCs will usually work with PowerPlay.

Thanks for the response Michael. The previous revision of the MacBook Pro DOES have a working PowerPlay. I'm not sure exactly what changed between the two versions (besides the processor) but it shouldn't have been that much (at least when it comes to this sort of stuff). The MBP's (both revisions) don't use BIOS but rather EFI and, from what little I understand, they do some sort of BIOS emulation for OSes that need it. If AMD can provide a bit more info on this perhaps we can figure out what BIOS feature is not supported and get EFI to support it. Since it works on the rev 1 MBP I have high hopes that this is a simple software fix somewhere along the line. I'm also trying to get some more knowledgable people from the mactel-linux list to get involved in this discussion.

cheers

[Michael]

Thanks for the response Michael. The previous revision of the MacBook Pro DOES have a working PowerPlay. I'm not sure exactly what changed between the two versions (besides the processor) but it shouldn't have been that much (at least when it comes to this sort of stuff). The MBP's (both revisions) don't use BIOS but rather EFI and, from what little I understand, they do some sort of BIOS emulation for OSes that need it. If AMD can provide a bit more info on this perhaps we can figure out what BIOS feature is not supported and get EFI to support it. Since it works on the rev 1 MBP I have high hopes that this is a simple software fix somewhere along the line. I'm also trying to get some more knowledgable people from the mactel-linux list to get involved in this discussion.

cheers

I'll try to work out some more information on PowerPlay for the new MacBook Pros.

[Sven]

I dumped the VGA BIOS and run a 'string' over it. Here are some details
of the MacBook Pro (C2D)'s ATI BIOS:

09/18/06,16:32:25
XXX-A65001-001
M56P
PCI_EXPRESS
DDR3
M56P M59 ATOM BIOS 423e/450m
YOU HAVE NOT CONNECTED THE POWER CABLE TO YOUR VIDEO CARD.PLEASE REFER TO THE 'GETTING STARTED GUIDE' FOR PROPER HARDWARE INSTALLATION.
(C) 1988-2005, ATI Technologies Inc.
ATOMBIOSBK-ATI VER009.012.001.023.021990
BR21990.BIN
292227

These are someone's data from a first generation MBP (C1D), where
the aticonfig tool works:

03/07/06,18:31:14
XXX-A65001-001
M56P
PCI_EXPRESS
DDR3
M56P ATOM BIOS 313e/300m
YOU HAVE NOT CONNECTED THE POWER CABLE TO YOUR VIDEO CARD.PLEASE REFER TO THE 'GETTING STARTED GUIDE' FOR PROPER HARDWARE INSTALLATION.
(C) 1988-2005, ATI Technologies Inc.
ATOMBIOSBK-ATI VER009.012.001.012.018986
BR18986.BIN

Because Apple boots it's MacOS via EFI, it does not use the VGA BIOS. They will set the power states directly, I presume.
I will try to check, if I can change the settings, if I run under Windows...


Hope this helps...

[glussier]

I don't think ATI will want to do much for the ATI graphic cards installed in the Macbook pro. Apple has has just releasedd their new Macbook pros today, and they have dumped the ATI mobile x1600cards in favor of Nvidia 8600M GS cards, which I think is a good move.

I hope they do the samething for the Mac Pros, I had to pay top dollars for a Quadro because I didn't want to have the Radeon x1900.

[dpope]

I don't think ATI will want to do much for the ATI graphic cards installed in the Macbook pro. Apple has has just releasedd their new Macbook pros today, and they have dumped the ATI mobile x1600cards in favor of Nvidia 8600M GS cards, which I think is a good move.

I hope they do the samething for the Mac Pros, I had to pay top dollars for a Quadro because I didn't want to have the Radeon x1900.

I'm also considering trying to sell my current MBP and get an NVidia one but it is kind of rediculous to have to get rid of a brand new laptop because neither apple nor ATI want to deal with what should be a relatively minor issue of incorrect BIOS emulation. The worst thing is that there's no gaurantee that ATI's long-promised new unified driver would even address this issue. Do no other machines plan to use EFI?