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Thread: Mono 2.10, Moonlight 4 Preview 1 Released

  1. #31

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    @ciplogic

    It's logical monotheistic croud trolls to spread the word of an only true way (ms). Big B bless you my child.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by ciplogic View Post
    Yes and no.
    ciplogic

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    Hello, Miguel! Welcome to the forums!

    Miguel, you sure build lots of stuff on top of Volcano!

    You also advertise to build even more stuff, based on how much you already build there.

    But could you please provide a legal paper before, that allows to use the stuff out of volcano range and original land lord will have no issues soever? I mean patents and stuff. Yes, something that you really never want to talk about. Especially not, once MS prohibited any GPL etc. Please do dat.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by crazycheese View Post
    ciplogic

    Location
    Madrid, Spain

    Hello, Miguel! Welcome to the forums!

    Miguel, you sure build lots of stuff on top of Volcano!

    You also advertise to build even more stuff, based on how much you already build there.

    But could you please provide a legal paper before, that allows to use the stuff out of volcano range and original land lord will have no issues soever? I mean patents and stuff. Yes, something that you really never want to talk about. Especially not, once MS prohibited any GPL etc. Please do dat.
    If you just write in Google about my ID you can identify myself(!) and you will see that I contribute in an opensource project (but works sadly only with opensource technologies excluding Windows and .Net). Happily this project for now do not work for Linux for various reasons, including Mono.
    Also, I've wrote things that disagree with Miguel on his page, so taking this into perspective is equal like an alter-ego of Miguel enters on his page to criticize him?!
    At the end, my messages were about reasonable thinking, not biases. I honestly don't like KDE look, but I do think that is an amazing piece of software, so I don't write crap about KDE. Also, I don't attack Nokia for its contributions to Qt or KDE (yes Nokia pay developers for KDE project), and I do think that a lot of technologies to Linux bring more choice than fewer. Why you don't attack the opensourceness of Qt that have also a comercial license? Why don't attack LLVM/CLang that "sneak" into a lot of opensource projects?
    If you care about Mono in general, or even you want to destroy it, simply put public a broken patent (or if you care, put it as a bug report) and make sure that this patent make as much impact as possible.
    Anyway, as you will likely don't, at the end when I use Linux, if Mono will be removed in a distro, I will have to remove Banshee, Gnome Do (I don't use Tomboy Notes) and this will sadden me a little.
    One other cool thing that Mono "brings" is IKVM, and for simple applications (I use to render things based on Sunflow renderer) I will recompile them and I can use it without downloading a much bigger JRE.
    If Mono as it is today will be removed from my distro, I will likely remove my distro from my disk, Windows is a good OS anyway.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by ciplogic View Post
    Also, I've wrote things that disagree with Miguel on his page, so taking this into perspective is equal like an alter-ego of Miguel enters on his page to criticize him?!
    That with Miguel was just a joke...

    Quote Originally Posted by ciplogic View Post
    Anyway, as you will likely don't, at the end when I use Linux, if Mono will be removed in a distro, I will have to remove Banshee, Gnome Do (I don't use Tomboy Notes) and this will sadden me a little.
    Tomboy is straight garbage, there a LOT of alternatives to it, written in various languages. If Tomboy would try to match OneNote... then there would be some fun. But again, who needs OneNote with TiddlyWiki etc.
    QuodLibet is better than Banshee, and it is not the only player. Exile, ie K3M/amarok port to Qt is very good. I see no problem here.
    Gnome Do, erm KDE has shown that same is possible with Qt and some Cpp. I see no reason to port it or use other C+GTK based things.

    And I also see no need for .net to write such basic apps.

    And you also need BIG pack of various mono libs and binds - not less of size than JRE. But they have winpe .exe in them ahaha, talk about crossplatform.

    And patents etc, but you know. I would never ever even touch Mono, till I see its real owner behave like an open developer and not slaver a la Caesar.

    Quote Originally Posted by ciplogic View Post
    One other cool thing that Mono "brings" is IKVM, and for simple applications (I use to render things based on Sunflow renderer) I will recompile them and I can use it without downloading a much bigger JRE.
    Last time I used JRE it was magnificent. Programming was way easier than Cpp. Performance was FAST. Documentation was excellent. And it compiled to bytecode very quickly on Sun ultraSPARCs and run well on x86 machine after that.

    Quote Originally Posted by ciplogic View Post
    If Mono as it is today will be removed from my distro
    Use gentoo, put it back. Whats the problem, its linux - its about choices.

    Quote Originally Posted by ciplogic View Post
    Windows is a good OS anyway.
    Good joke too!

  5. #35
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    Last time I used JRE it was magnificent. Programming was way easier than Cpp. Performance was FAST. Documentation was excellent. And it compiled to bytecode very quickly on Sun ultraSPARCs and run well on x86 machine after that.
    Yes, but have the same problems as Mono: is big corporation backed (mostly two: Oracle and IBM) and have typically the same risks with Mono, excluding that Microsoft did said publicly that will not attack Mono (and this will make harder for a patent war).
    Mono is slower than Java, for certain, anyway C#/base classes are well documented (at least via Google, if you hate MonoDoc).
    Mono is a Java like technology with a lot of desktop focus (where Java mostly lacks). Anyway, Java excluding Azureus (which you may agree also that have a lot of desktop replacements as bittorrent clients), most likely users will not use. I do have installed Java (for freemind), but Sunflow with IKVM was in a test to try to make rendering happen on Linux with minimum setup (I've simply copied some IKVM compiled JAR and works with no setup on Linux.
    One personal note about my preferences: I do love Boo language and I use it in a context that depend on the fact that .Net (or Mono on that matter) have JIT capabilities and I do know that I do not have an equivalent technology. The closest counterpart is on Java side, named Mirah, but this will make ugly other parts, like desktop interoperation (I try in my free time to make a Boo/Tao/OpenGL game that will work on Linux). And I've just tried Java but some techniques I do use in .Net (mostly Generics + reflection) have different behavior than expected. At the end, for certain if the game will take shape, someone will say: why not ... (C/C++/JavaScript) but they will likely just complain but not contribute, so no point to ask people what do they prefer. Also, if that game will be playable and fun, even it will have from time to time delays (from GC, on my machine the GC time is likely 20 ms with SGen, if I will allocate things in my main game loop) I think they will not quit the game.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by ciplogic View Post
    Yes, but have the same problems as Mono: is big corporation backed (mostly two: Oracle and IBM) and have typically the same risks with Mono, excluding that Microsoft did said publicly that will not attack Mono (and this will make harder for a patent war).
    Most of us don't trust anything that comes from Microsoft's mouth or anyone associated with them. If you remember the Halloween Documents, MS has laid a plan on how to destroy Linux and Open Source using any means necessary. They've invented the utterly cowardly "embrace, extend, extinguish" strategy of dealing with competitors. For all we know, Mono is part of this.

    If you want to trust MS, that's your choice. But all evidence really suggests you shouldn't. You remind me of those characters in disaster movies that go like "nothing's gonna happen, relax". And when the catastrophe hits, they're the first to die. Horribly.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by ciplogic View Post
    (I try in my free time to make a Boo/Tao/OpenGL game that will work on Linux).
    Try Boo/OpenTK/OpenGL so you can target Linux/Mac/Windows from the same codebase (and optionally Android/iPhone). It is the successor to Tao and can run applications written for it (through OpenTK.Compatibility).

    There's an awesome 3d engine written in Boo, called KRI Engine. It has an innovative quaternion/shader/GL3-based pipeline and I like it's design a lot - sadly not enough time to use it myself right now.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackStar View Post
    Try Boo/OpenTK/OpenGL so you can target Linux/Mac/Windows from the same codebase (and optionally Android/iPhone). It is the successor to Tao and can run applications written for it (through OpenTK.Compatibility).

    There's an awesome 3d engine written in Boo, called KRI Engine. It has an innovative quaternion/shader/GL3-based pipeline and I like it's design a lot - sadly not enough time to use it myself right now.
    Really thanks! One of the rare common sense messages I've got and really helpful and useful!

  9. #39

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    Quote Originally Posted by ciplogic View Post
    Really thanks! One of the rare common sense messages I've got and really helpful and useful!
    Unlike the crap like advertising mono. It's enough to copy and paste Qt 'goodies' to show mono is a crap. Or better to run yourself Qt/C++ vs mono app.

  10. #40
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    C++ cannot hold a candle to Boo in sheer awesomeness.

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