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Thread: Gordon's Thoughts On Open-Source GPU Drivers

  1. #101
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    Just going to add my two cents here: When you go 100% purist on people then you scare away the people who could use an OS with 90% free drivers and 90% free apps. Particularly when your claims as to what the drivers or apps can do are blatantly false or misleading, when you're desperately trying to tell me that I shouldn't be doing whatever I am trying to do or that the open source [whatever] is better when anyone without an inch thick rosy glasses can see that they're not.

    Many people are actively *hostile* to closed source and will do everything to destroy interoperability, talk trash to users about it and those who use it because they fear it will be popular. They'd rather trick, intimidate and force people to use the open source code even if it is dog shit in the hope that someone will improve it.

    I went back to Windows but use as much open source software as possible, because there I have choices including "not good enough" and check my wallet for what alternatives there are. Linux is the One Open-Source Way, in that any closed source software that tries to play gets quickly run out of town by a system that spits it out and users that spit on it.

  2. #102
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    Just wow.

    The #1 requirement in a graphics card is that it work. Fancy 3D performance? Don't give a whit. Out of the box the ATI video cards "just work" in my machines.

    I've seen people mention that Microsoft spends considerable time with backwards compatibility, that Windows 7 hasn't broken a video driver, etc. ORLY?

    I've moved to 64bit Linux ages ago. We're making the transition to 64bit Windows 7 at work. The list of hardware/software which just doesn't work is endless. Adobe Reader X? No "Open" option - provides "save only." The Diamond PCI video cards we bought for some staff to have dual monitors? No worky. Ditto for the business card scanners, older SCSI card based scanners, Sony voice recorders, etc.

    I remember all too well when Windows installed and worked well yet Linux was a bear to get working right. Those days are long past. I have two scanners here, an Artec and an Epson V500. Both work just fine under Linux without any significant effort. The Artec on Windows 7 64bit? Not a prayer.

    I do not game. Let's not delude ourselves that gaming drives the Linux market as it doesn't. I couldn't care less about gaming and neither does the biggest market for Linux: smart phones.

  3. #103
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    I couldn't care less about gaming and neither does the biggest market for Linux: smart phones.
    Otherwise I very much agree with your post, but gaming on Android is huge.

  4. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by oicupeking View Post
    I've moved to 64bit Linux ages ago. We're making the transition to 64bit Windows 7 at work. The list of hardware/software which just doesn't work is endless. Adobe Reader X? No "Open" option - provides "save only." The Diamond PCI video cards we bought for some staff to have dual monitors? No worky. Ditto for the business card scanners, older SCSI card based scanners, Sony voice recorders, etc.
    Wow, just wow. You're going to fault Microsoft for an Adobe product not working? Great. Linux sucks because Flash amd64 sucks.

  5. #105
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    While gaming hardly drives the Linux market on desktops, it does prevent it from becoming popular. I've converted a few people to Linux, but most people I've tried to convert wouldn't do it because of the gaming issue. This issue didn't have to do with drivers so much as it did compatibility though.

  6. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by locovaca View Post
    Wow, just wow. You're going to fault Microsoft for an Adobe product not working? Great. Linux sucks because Flash amd64 sucks.
    I was unaware that Adobe was responsible for the design of Windows. They'd have to be as that is what is causing the problems with vendors moving to 64 bit.

    Flash 64 works here just fine.

  7. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by oicupeking View Post
    I was unaware that Adobe was responsible for the design of Windows. They'd have to be as that is what is causing the problems with vendors moving to 64 bit.

    Flash 64 works here just fine.
    Adobe Reader 9 has an Open File option, so this is clearly something Adobe, not Microsoft, removed for Reader X. Faulting Microsoft for this is completely wrong.

  8. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by locovaca View Post
    Adobe Reader 9 has an Open File option, so this is clearly something Adobe, not Microsoft, removed for Reader X. Faulting Microsoft for this is completely wrong.
    Gimp has an open option, so any problems encountered with video drivers in Linux are clearly not the fault of the vendors. Makes about as much sense as what you wrote.

    I'll repeat, the architecture of Windows is the problem. Linux has made the transition to 64bit in a seamless manner. Windows hasn't. Do the math.

    The transition to 64 bit is where the chickens truly come home to roost for Microsoft. Windows 64bit, frankly, sucks greatly at running 32bit programs. This is something Linux did very well. I'll give another, completely Microsoft, example. The print control in SQL Reporting Services 2005 and 2008 will not run in 64bit IE. All Microsoft software and it's DOA. Why can't 64bit IE run that? Because the design of Windows made it hard enough where not even Microsoft can get it to work.

    All those 32bit closed source programs and drivers. As long as Windows stayed 32bit they could just keep pushing them forward. The move to 64bit has resulted in both programs and hardware becoming "abandonware."

    http://orders.visioneer.com/item.jsp?item=90-0510-300

    Doesn't work in Windows 7. Not in 32 or 64 bit. Microsoft's "compatibility guide" claims it does. Nope - no driver for either. None in sight.

    http://esupport.sony.com/US/perl/swu...20&region_id=1

    Go ahead and use the drop down to select your operating system. No 64 bit option?

    Bingo.

    With close source drivers piles and piles of hardware is now junk. Advantage Linux.

  9. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by oicupeking View Post
    Gimp has an open option, so any problems encountered with video drivers in Linux are clearly not the fault of the vendors. Makes about as much sense as what you wrote.
    You wrote the original complaint of blaming Microsoft for removing an Open File option from Reader X. If anyone makes no sense around here it started with that comment.

    I'll repeat, the architecture of Windows is the problem. Linux has made the transition to 64bit in a seamless manner. Windows hasn't. Do the math.
    No, actually, it wasn't seamless. It may seem seamless now, but it sure wasn't in 2002 when it started. It took Linux how many years to get a native, non-server 64 bit JVM? 5?

    Yup, things were just peachy back then:

    http://www.linuxtx.org/amd64faq.html

    The transition to 64 bit is where the chickens truly come home to roost for Microsoft. Windows 64bit, frankly, sucks greatly at running 32bit programs. This is something Linux did very well. I'll give another, completely Microsoft, example. The print control in SQL Reporting Services 2005 and 2008 will not run in 64bit IE. All Microsoft software and it's DOA. Why can't 64bit IE run that? Because the design of Windows made it hard enough where not even Microsoft can get it to work.
    A little googliing reveals that this is related to a bad Killbits Hotfix, not a 32 vs 64 bit mismatch.

    In fact, in the last post, you can clearly see that there are 3 .cabs, one for each architecture Microsoft supports:

    http://social.msdn.microsoft.com/for...-b2c5f03d3c07/

    All those 32bit closed source programs and drivers. As long as Windows stayed 32bit they could just keep pushing them forward. The move to 64bit has resulted in both programs and hardware becoming "abandonware."

    http://orders.visioneer.com/item.jsp?item=90-0510-300
    Let me guess, it's Microsoft's fault that Visioneer hasn't released a driver for *their* product since 2005, but it's not the Linux communities fault that Sun held back JVM development, right?

    Doesn't work in Windows 7. Not in 32 or 64 bit. Microsoft's "compatibility guide" claims it does. Nope - no driver for either. None in sight.

    http://esupport.sony.com/US/perl/swu...20&region_id=1

    Go ahead and use the drop down to select your operating system. No 64 bit option?

    Bingo.

    With close source drivers piles and piles of hardware is now junk. Advantage Linux.
    Didn't see Linux in that list either. Maybe you should write some open source Windows 64 bit drivers and help them out? Or maybe boycott their products, just as everyone in the Linux community vows to do when a particular company isn't releasing Linux drivers or every spec about their hardware?

    It's a humorous double standard, really. Company fails to support Windows = Microsoft is Evil. Company fails to support Linux = Company is Evil.

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