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Thread: The AMD "Radeon HD 8000" Open-Source Milestone

  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by V!NCENT View Post
    Do keep in mind that HD9xxx is probably released three years from now (2014) and that a desktop will last 5-6years (2019-2020) so there is a lot to be conquered and figured out in 8-9 years.

    Also setting up office in a café takes no longer than placing your 13" tablet on the table along with a wireless keyboard (those Apple keyboards are not large!) en you're up and running.

    Do you realy carry around a 19" laptop to model on the go? o_O

    Also a case with a build in keyboard can turn it into a laptop any time you want (I've already seen them in real life)
    A 13" tablet + wireless keyboard = a laptop by another name. Once you add a keyboard then you add a mouse, because taking both hands off the keyboard to grab the screen and move something around gets tedious and slow. And then you're looking for an OS that favors using a mouse, and we're right back to where we started.

    I recall the same predictions for PDAs in the early 2000s and that they were going to kill the Notebook market for business travelers entirely. Pull the PDA out of your pocket, take the Stoaway Keyboard out and dock the two. A laptop replacement the size of two wallets. It was a great idea, except that it did not overcome the actual need of a laptop.

    If you're going to carry around a 13" Tablet + Wireless Keyboard/Mouse, what's the point, just go for a 13" laptop which is all the more powerful, gets just as good battery life, and doesn't suffer from the clumsiness that comes with such a configuration.

  2. #42
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    I don't know where to start so I'll just sum it up:
    -You don't need a laptop configuration but you can;
    -Doing office on my smartphone is a disaster;
    -Doing iWork office on an iPad is bliss;
    -Screensize is big;
    -Batterylife rocks on tablets;
    -No stupid fan holes;
    -It makes zero noise;
    -There is no charger with thesize of a brig;
    -It's lighter;
    -You can keep that keyboard in your backpack and use the damn thing;
    -iPad sales in 9months > all sales of all tablets ever;
    -Everybody can learn to work on an iPad in a day Vs. figuring out how desktops work even after ten years.

    So... you tell me why this is failing...

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by V!NCENT View Post
    I don't know where to start so I'll just sum it up:
    -You don't need a laptop configuration but you can;
    -Doing office on my smartphone is a disaster;
    -Doing iWork office on an iPad is bliss;
    -Screensize is big;
    -Batterylife rocks on tablets;
    -No stupid fan holes;
    -It makes zero noise;
    -There is no charger with thesize of a brig;
    -It's lighter;
    -You can keep that keyboard in your backpack and use the damn thing;
    -iPad sales in 9months > all sales of all tablets ever;
    -Everybody can learn to work on an iPad in a day Vs. figuring out how desktops work even after ten years.

    So... you tell me why this is failing...
    1. My 13" C2D gets 8 hours battery life.
    2. It makes 0 noise because it's not a 45 Watt desktop processor.
    3. The battery charger is not a "brick", it reasonably sized.
    4. It has proper functionality for the creation, storage, and manipulation of any document format I can throw at it.
    5. The difference between 3 pounds and ~1.5 pounds is much bigger on paper than it is in real life.
    6. It is not locked to any sort of monarchical company to decide what's best for it. IT Admins aren't too big on that sort of thing. Even Windows, for all of its annoying behaviors with things like auto updates, allows a large amount of configuration to be changed at the Group Policy level.

    The iPad may be the in thing now, but like very other technological hit it will run its course and fade away. Netbooks hit all of your non-tablet based criteria, and know why those quickly went away? People tried to get them to do more and more things, realized their limitations at said things, and all of a sudden they weren't sexy any longer. The same will happen to the iPad. While a minority of the population says "How can I change my habits to suit the iPad?", the business world says "How can I get the iPad to do what I'm doing today." And that's where it will fail.

  4. #44
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    OK, fair enough, but:
    -You can't hold your laptop on your lap;
    -You still need to lift you hand of the trackpad/mouse to type;
    -We are talking about a 'new' product (tablets were still just a traditional desktop OS+touchscreen)
    -Way too expensive for what they could offer that was widely available (Vaio)
    -People still don't get it with desktops (where's the blue e?! My internet is broken!!!)
    -The iPad doesn't have any real competetion which is good (people can't install more demanding app X) so they can set the bar for what is possible.
    -Still a few years to go to put a core i9000 in it.

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by V!NCENT View Post
    OK, fair enough, but:
    -You can't hold your laptop on your lap;
    I can't see a compelling business case for this. For casual usage, sure, it's nice. For doing any sort of serious work sitting down with it on my lap slows me down.

    -You still need to lift your hand of the trackpad/mouse to type;
    If you're using a keyboard the mouse is physically closer for quick switching and only requires one hand. Using a keyboard with a tablet, which is presumably propped up on a desk, requires a longer reach and two hands, one to stabilize the tablet and one to gesture (or both to gesture).

    -We are talking about a 'new' product (tablets were still just a traditional desktop OS+touchscreen)
    The iPad is not a new product. It's the evolution of the PDA. PDA + Cell Phone = Smart Phone. Smart Phone + MP3 Player = iPhone. iPhone + Large Screen = iPad. The constant factor in all of this, from the PDA to the iPad, is that the device is meant to supplement, not replace a full size desktop. Companies typically only issue one device per employee.

    -Way too expensive for what they could offer that was widely available (Vaio)
    -People still don't get it with desktops (where's the blue e?! My internet is broken!!!)
    Actually, in my experience, people in the 30-50 year range are just starting to get near universal acceptance of the Microsoft Office Suite and web browsers. I think you are exaggerating here.

    -The iPad doesn't have any real competition which is good (people can't install more demanding app X) so they can set the bar for what is possible.
    -Still a few years to go to put a core i9000 in it.
    Actually, I consider the lack of competition to be bad in just about any area, and the iPad is no exception. As a companion to a standard desktop it is overpriced. Get the base price down to $200 and then we're talking. Competition will bring that price down. Android 3.0 might do that, if device makers can put out some decent devices at the price points they have been doing with the first/second waves of Android tablets.

    I'm not saying the iPad isn't a good device or that it's not wildly successful in certain markets. But the exponential growth seen with the iPad is just not sustainable and will level out once the secondary pc/tablet market saturates.

  6. #46

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    Quote Originally Posted by V!NCENT View Post
    Also setting up office in a café takes no longer than placing your 13" tablet on the table along with a wireless keyboard (those Apple keyboards are not large!) en you're up and running.
    How about using a 13" notebook, that way you only have to carry around one thing. Seriously what you just wrote has got to be one of the dumbest use cases for an iPad I have ever seen, congratulations!

    This sort of delirious talk is often a sign of iPad fever. A disease commonly found in adolescent teenagers, fashionistas, homosexuals and other groups of people known to be susceptible to a good marketing ploy.

    Well done Apple!

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by locovaca View Post
    Using a keyboard with a tablet, which is presumably propped up on a desk, requires a longer reach and two hands, one to stabilize the tablet and one to gesture (or both to gesture).
    That's not true; you can roll up the new iPad cover like this:
    http://whollysblog.com/wordpress/wp-...rt-cover-1.jpg

    [...]is that the device is meant to supplement, not replace a full size desktop.
    Apple realy is trying to migrate almost fully to the iPad as a desktop replacement by calling it a 'post-pc-device' and integrating iPad features to Mac OS X for smooth transition. They already offer a trackpad mouse replacement for their desktop iMac.

    Actually, in my experience, people in the 30-50 year range are just starting to get near universal acceptance of the Microsoft Office Suite and web browsers. I think you are exaggerating here.
    Wait untill they switch from XP to Windows 7. Anyway the point I was trying to make (and maybe a little extreme with the 'e') was that the iPad was more intuitive than a desktop computer (or at least Windows).

    Actually, I consider the lack of competition to be bad in just about any area, and the iPad is no exception.
    I fully agree here, but what I meant to say was "Yet". This because if Apple sets the bar for a little longer, they can make other companies prepare for such a global idea of what tablets can be for and like. Hell I'm using Fedora 15 Alpha and visit a Linux hardware review site. You don't realy think I like practical monopolies (Windows), do you?

    As a companion to a standard desktop it is overpriced. Get the base price down to $200 and then we're talking.
    No we are not; You're comparing it to a 13" laptop. Those cost more than $500. You also didn't want it to a netbook failure.
    Apple also upgraded the CPU with an extra core and 9x the graphics performance (OpenGL ES 2.0) so the iPad is being agressively updated in performance (they hired a chip design team to squeeze extra power out of ARMs design). So performance is being worked on and the current Android tablets are realy laughed at from a hardware perspective.

    I'm not saying the iPad isn't a good device or that it's not wildly successful in certain markets. But the exponential growth seen with the iPad is just not sustainable and will level out once the secondary pc/tablet market saturates.
    Apple is known for releasing their first product as solid and bare as possible. Believe in that my first reaction to the first iPad was like this:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3HHLNQ3BZEA
    (^ check it out if you want to laugh realy hard)

    Later on I started to see the potential of this large iPod Touch when I saw a journalist create documents with a wireless Apple keyboard like this (in size):
    http://www.buyapplereader.com/wp-content/uploads/ipad wireless keyboard.jpg

    Quote Originally Posted by AnonymousCoward View Post
    How about using a 13" notebook, that way you only have to carry around one thing. Seriously what you just wrote has got to be one of the dumbest use cases for an iPad I have ever seen, congratulations!
    I know that your brain has been fscked by too much slashvertising hate, mr. AC, but I think I make a pretty good use case.

    This sort of delirious talk is often a sign of iPad fever. A disease commonly found in adolescent teenagers, fashionistas, homosexuals and other groups of people known to be susceptible to a good marketing ploy.
    Luckily I am none of that and FYI I have a 13" Vaio with a HD5470 running Fedora 15 Alpha with open source drivers and I have an stock Android smartphone.

    Well done Apple!
    Imbecile Now go do your LFS install on that Pentium3 laptop because modern computers are full of TCP chips and you don't need to upgrade because loading FireFox in 10 seconds is reasonable and eMacs does LaTeX which is way more pro than those new WYSIWYG editors and there damn formats!

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by V!NCENT View Post
    Anyway the point I was trying to make was that the iPad was more intuitive than a desktop computer (or at least Windows).
    This thread is so off-topic right now that one more contribution won't make much difference, so here goes.
    I have to agree with you on that one. Having used for a few minutes a few iDevices lately, they are quite easy and natural to use. It's even possible to install a terminal emulator and SSH client and server on them, so how much more friendly can it get?

    Quote Originally Posted by V!NCENT View Post
    Apple also upgraded the CPU with an extra core and 9x the graphics performance (OpenGL ES 2.0) so the iPad is being agressively updated in performance (they hired a chip design team to squeeze extra power out of ARMs design). So performance is being worked on and the current Android tablets are realy laughed at from a hardware perspective.
    That 9x graphics performance must be on some very specific app, because all the tests I've seen don't come close to that. It's much better, sure, but not 9x. At most it was 5x IIRC. The dual core CPU does make a big difference though. On the Android front, the Motorola Xoom seems to be the top dog right now, but it still looses to the iPad 2 in most areas. We should see some very insteresting Android 3.0 devices shortly.

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    Quote Originally Posted by methril View Post
    From the new:

    I`m interested in this target, i`m embedded developer, and i usually make drivers for Linux (i did some net drivers), but i would like to improve my 3D/GPU drivers, how could i help? I see the learning curve a little bit high, but i would like to help in any way.
    __
    Methril
    Rafael Campos Las Heras
    Hi Rafael,

    Do you have interest in a specific existing chip line, or do you just want to help out in general?

    There's some documentation out there on how videos and the 3D pipeline work, and there's definitely room for improvement in the drivers out there.

    One general link that describes the overall 3D pipeline and software stack is here:
    http://www.x.org/wiki/Development/Do...VideoCardsWork

    You will probably want to familiarize yourself with Gallium3D, as that's what a lot of future development will probably use
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gallium3D (also check out the external links there)

    I've often heard that the best way to get involved is to pick an extension that you would like to see supported in Mesa and actually create an implementation of it.

    Either that, or just find a bug on the Mesa bug tracker and try to fix it ( start at https://bugs.freedesktop.org and search for Mesa bugs).

    You might also want to start reading the mesa-dev mailing list to see how things are done.

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by 89c51 View Post
    this "hd 8000" generation is about 2 years away right????
    no 2012... 6-8 months

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