We need a Campaign for OpenGL Patent Exemptions for OSS, namely Mesa, and Linux

[mirv]

Only if it is replicable on a fairly consistent basis and noticeably effects gameplay. That is something that reporting a low extreme does not tell you. You have to take a look at the frequency those low frame rates occur and that will usually be reflected in the overall fps.

Repeated occurrence at a particular point, gameplay or not, is important. What affects one game slightly, may affect another rather more - or worse for these companies, it could be something affecting their workstation software targets.
I'd also say that non-variation in framerate is more important for gameplay than anything else, but that's getting off to much into a tangent (much like the whole thread I suppose).
So to bring things back a little - what if that minimum framerate only occurred because they couldn't use floating point buffers, or S3TC, or something similar?

[deanjo]

So to bring things back a little - what if that minimum framerate only occurred because they couldn't use floating point buffers, or S3TC, or something similar?

Then the benchmark ideally would return a fairly consistent result, the fact that this does not happen suggest that the slow downs are induced from an outside influence making the min fps result useless.

[mirv]

Then the benchmark ideally would return a fairly consistent result, the fact that this does not happen suggest that the slow downs are induced from an outside influence making the min fps result useless.

Fairly consistent only if you're aware of what's happening at the time of the slow down, otherwise it might only seem inconsistent. Case in point (and bringing back to on-topic, no matter how people try to diverge!): I had sub-image replacement corruption that for all intents and purposes appeared random, and would have been had anyone else looked at it. What the problem was, was that the s3tc texture blocks had to be replaced in a specific order, or with certain data the result was corrupted. Driver bug, actually, several years back and long since fixed, and not something I would have needed except for using the drivers to convert images to s3tc format.

[deanjo]

Fairly consistent only if you're aware of what's happening at the time of the slow down, otherwise it might only seem inconsistent. Case in point (and bringing back to on-topic, no matter how people try to diverge!): I had sub-image replacement corruption that for all intents and purposes appeared random, and would have been had anyone else looked at it. What the problem was, was that the s3tc texture blocks had to be replaced in a specific order, or with certain data the result was corrupted. Driver bug, actually, several years back and long since fixed, and not something I would have needed except for using the drivers to convert images to s3tc format.

You still need to see something like a histogram before you can make any type of educated conclusion. Otherwise it is like saying, Team A scored a goal and then determining if they won or not without knowing the other teams score. With your issue if the data was identical that it was trying to process on the same run then the results should be relatively identical. The heaven test does the same calculations in the same order, the items it has to render are identical each and every run.

[mirv]

You still need to see something like a histogram before you can make any type of educated conclusion. Otherwise it is like saying, Team A scored a goal and then determining if they won or not without knowing the other teams score. With your issue if the data was identical that it was trying to process on the same run then the results should be relatively identical. The heaven test does the same calculations in the same order, the items it has to render are identical each and every run.

My point is that you can't simply say that the min fps is useless - not from that benchmark, nor from any other, and I pointed out why. If you'd done any serious performance programming, you would know this.

[deanjo]

My point is that you can't simply say that the min fps is useless - not from that benchmark, nor from any other, and I pointed out why. If you'd done any serious performance programming, you would know this.

That number quoted up there is useless as it gives no real indication as to when, how long, why it happened. It doesn't even isolate it to being an application issue. The fact that it it cannot be replicated on a steady basis running a "canned app" suggest that the dip occurred from an outside influence. A single low point fps does not tell you anything meaningful.For all you know that dip occurred while the timer started and the level was still loading.


PS I would say "realtime financial analysis software development" would qualify as "any serious performance programming".

[mirv]

That number quoted up there is useless as it gives no real indication as to when, how long, why it happened. It doesn't even isolate it to being an application issue. The fact that it it cannot be replicated on a steady basis running a "canned app" suggest that the dip occurred from an outside influence. A single low point fps does not tell you anything meaningful.For all you know that dip occurred while the timer started and the level was still loading.


PS I would say "realtime financial analysis software development" would qualify as "any serious performance programming".

Then you've just told me that they should be waiting for a couple of seconds to run the benchmark and give better numbers. Either way, the min fps just gave you information.

[Qaridarium]

Here are two more runs Q. Same system, same drivers, same version of app.
Does this now mean that Windows 7 / DX 11 / and 32 bit blobs are superior?
Because according to your criteria that would be the case. If that is the case,
how did you ever conclude that Linux 64 / ogl were superior?

on that run openGL clearly lose.

but yes thats what i talking in my first post you make a statement based on your own (faked) benchmark.

you need other people to reproduce your results.

[Qaridarium]

PS I would say "realtime financial analysis software development" would qualify as "any serious performance programming".

no not really driver programming in low-level is just another stuff than your high-programming an business software.

and no i do not drop you down its just another kind of skill.

sorry.

[deanjo]

no not really driver programming in low-level is just another stuff than your high-programming an business software.

and no i do not drop you down its just another kind of skill.

sorry.

Lol, programmed drivers for better part of a decade.