Intel Mesa Gives Problems With KDE's KWin, Again

[kraftman]

Are you serious? They are perfectly willing to test Gnome but flat-out refuse to test KDE? So they work hard to make sure Firefox works, work hard to make sure Gnome works, but knowingly break KDE?

This response suggests they simply don't care about KDE. I didn't say someone broke kwin intentionally, but it happened just before the release and this is stupid. Last time there were also problems with mesa, kwin and Kubuntu.

http://lists.freedesktop.org/archive...il/006872.html

"Mesa is our most important upstream and KWin (together with Compiz and Mutter) are your most important downstreams." is not even close to be true. They're very important, but they're not even close to be the most important. Reality is that no one is getting paid to make sure KWin works on latest Mesa3D and that by itself makes it pretty insignificant. In fact there's very few people running KDE as their main DE at all here.

It seems they mainly care about gnome. I believed KDE and Gnome are treated equally, but now I see this is not true.

[Lynxeye]

It seems they mainly care about gnome. I believed KDE and Gnome are treated equally, but now I see this is not true.

Developer time doesn't come from heaven. If some developer is *paid* to make sure that gnome works he will test and make sure gnome works. If nobody cares about kde, nobody will notice breakages. Thats how real life works for ages now.

[monraaf]

You gotta love the sense of entitlement within the KDE community.

The sole purpose of upstream is to cater to KDE and its Kitsch Window Manager. Every upstream commit, even if it consists only of white space fixes, must be tested to make sure it does not negatively affect KDE/KWin in any way. Those who do not abide or simply forget will have to face the wrath of angry KDE bloggers and KDE foot soldiers spewing their hate on various forums.

Reality check: In spite of what you may think, the world does not revolve around KDE. No really.

[mat69]

Positive racism is still racism.

Then you are ignoring different cultures and thus act kinda ignorant yourself...
To asume that every person, every culture is equal is rather naive. Btw. the term equal does not value, people do.

@Important mesa users
Compositing is not really important, you can use most WM quite good without compositing. Actually Gnome 3.0 is the first major system to force compositing and is not really doing that ("old" mode).
So personally I can understand that compositing is not highest on the dev's list. If compositing does not work you can still use most desktops around.

@monraaf bla bla bla ... try better with flaming, you are too obvious and thus unfunny.

[kraftman]

You gotta love the sense of entitlement within the KDE community.

The sole purpose of upstream is to cater to KDE and its Kitsch Window Manager. Every upstream commit, even if it consists only of white space fixes, must be tested to make sure it does not negatively affect KDE/KWin in any way. Those who do not abide or simply forget will have to face the wrath of angry KDE bloggers and KDE foot soldiers spewing their hate on various forums.

Reality check: In spite of what you may think, the world does not revolve around KDE. No really.

That's funny. It seems world does revolve around gnome this times. I wouldn't say Kitch Window Manager, because if Kwin is a 'Kitch' then Mutter's a grandma. If this will be normal ecosystem everyone would make sure changes doesn't brake user space just before release of important distribution. KDE's the one of the most popular DEs (if not the most popular) after all. Driver breakages won't help gnome shell in any way.

[kraftman]

Developer time doesn't come from heaven. If some developer is *paid* to make sure that gnome works he will test and make sure gnome works. If nobody cares about kde, nobody will notice breakages. Thats how real life works for ages now.

You didn't say anything new. If they don't care about KDE I don't care about floss drivers. It's simple.

[Lynxeye]

Your decision. Do you think this will affect the free drivers in any way? If you don't use free drivers you have no reason to whine about them breaking kde.

[kraftman]

Your decision. Do you think this will affect the free drivers in any way? If you don't use free drivers you have no reason to whine about them breaking kde.

I'm using free drivers. They were the reason I bought an ati card. If free drivers will be making problems in KDE I bet many people will switch to some better supported drivers.

[yotambien]

Most of those issues are in the past now, but one part of the
problem will remain more or less forever -- the fact that OpenGL 2.x came
out after DX9 hardware was designed but doesn't quite match the DX9
requirements. As a consequence of this, there are multiple generations of
cards which can run GL 2.x well enough that users want it enabled (ie want
the features advertised) but which can not provide 100% support and never
will.

The choices are either to disable GL 2.x features completely (thereby
costing users the ability to run a large number of interesting and useful
apps) or enable the features and recognize that they are always going to
be "implementation errors" when running on DX9 hardware because the
hardware doesn't support everything that GL 2.x requires.

Ooooh, that's extremely interesting. According to Wikipedia OpenGL 2.0
was released in 2004, and OpenGL 2.1 in 2006. R300s were released in
2002/2003, and a lot of R400s were released in 2004. R500s saw the light
of the day mainly in 2005/2006.

Are the OpenGL 2.1 features required by Kwin among those not fully
supported by hardware from these generations? Is that what's killing its
performance? If yes, what would be the possible workarounds?

Then you are ignoring different cultures and thus act kinda
ignorant yourself...
To asume that every person, every culture is equal is rather naive. Btw.
the term equal does not value, people do.

Sure, not all cultures are equal. For instance, Germans are direct and
speak the truth, whereas Turks are treacherous and keep themselves busy
beating up their wifes. Poles are better mannered, but have an annoying
tendency to steal your car. Japanese are very disciplined and never
complain. Sub-saharian africans love to dance all day (after all, they
have rythm in their blood). Italians cook well, too bad they're a bunch
of sexist pigs. See? It's all in the culture!

[mat69]

Sure, not all cultures are equal. For instance, Germans are direct and
speak the truth, whereas Turks are treacherous and keep themselves busy
beating up their wifes. Poles are better mannered, but have an annoying
tendency to steal your car. Japanese are very disciplined and never
complain. Sub-saharian africans love to dance all day (after all, they
have rythm in their blood). Italians cook well, too bad they're a bunch
of sexist pigs. See? It's all in the culture!

Wow you are so clever.
Have you ever heard of sociology or folklore [1]?

[1] I am afraid this is not the correct translation of "Volkskunde"