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Thread: Torvalds: User-Space File-Systems, Toys, Misguided People

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by droidhacker View Post
    No you didn't, what you suggested makes no sense. There's no point.
    How's there no point in accessing the data of my Windows installation? Stop smoking whatever it is you're smoking, dude. It's bad for your brain.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by droidhacker
    Why else would you want to access disk from wondoze unless its to recover data?
    If you have a dual-boot setup, putting shared data (music/video collection, VM disk images, etc.) on NTFS makes it readily accessible from both Windows and Linux. NTFS is also commonly used on large external HDDs for similar reasons.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by RealNC View Post
    How's there no point in accessing the data of my Windows installation? Stop smoking whatever it is you're smoking, dude. It's bad for your brain.
    If you have to access the wrong side's data from the other side, YOU'RE DOING IT WRONG.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by smitty3268 View Post
    Can you explain how either of those kernels are more micro-kernel than Linux is? I think all 3 of them are properly classified as hybrid kernels, and all are pretty similarly designed.
    A hybrid kernel is a term made up to cover for the fact that Apple was full of shit about using a Microkernel from day one.

    Microsoft actually had the balls to try to put a microkernel into production. NT, for very early versions, actually had a microkernel. But they figured out why Linus was right and abandoned that design.

    They may retain some 'microkernel'-isms here and there, but they are not Microkernels by any stretch of the imagination.

    This is a good thing as Microkernels are much larger, much more complex, and much slower then monolythic.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by droidhacker View Post
    If you have to access the wrong side's data from the other side, YOU'RE DOING IT WRONG.
    Most user data doesn't have a "side".

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by droidhacker View Post
    Linus did NOT say that FUSE was useless and should go away. He said that EXT4 on FUSE would be stupid. NTFS on FUSE is fine though, since nobody in their right mind would make their root FS NTFS or use NTFS for anything besides some data retrieval from a corrupt windoze install.
    Well, maybe a bit more than that. I write software for Windows and Linux, and I need native Windows install (not VMware or wine) to test it. I frequently use ntfs-3g to move files (source code, sometimes binaries) between my Windows partition and my Linux partition. I also store my entire music collection on NTFS on the Windows side, so that I can access it natively on Windows, and through ntfs-3g on Linux.

    The alternative would be to install an ext4-capable driver on Windows. The problem with that is the only existing ext* driver on Windows only supports up to ext3, and you can't use any of the ext4 features that break the on-disk format if you want to use that driver. Other than being essentially stuck mounting my volumes as ext3, the Windows driver further has the disadvantage of having a much smaller user community and therefore less testing and a higher likelihood of breaking. Plus, I don't entirely trust third party kernel modules on my Windows box: having a "built-in" NTFS driver on Windows, and a "built-in" officially supported ntfs-3g on a Linux distro is the safer bet. And if ntfs-3g has a problem you can fall back on your distro to support it (and maybe even fix it -- it's open source!), assuming that it's in the `main' repository.

    I've even used ntfsfix to un-bork an NTFS volume that wound up in a nasty state due to power failure or a BSOD while running Windows. I hear it causes fragmentation and doesn't do as good of a job at recovering things as Microsoft's chkdsk, but I haven't lost any data because of it.

    Basically ntfs-3g is fast enough for me, and it's most certainly stable enough. I use it continuously via Rhythmbox for playing music on the Linux side, and I have the volume in my /etc/fstab. And sometimes I do large data writes (>1GB) through it with no ill side effects.

    Of course I do own a professional copy of DiskKeeper on the Windows side, which I use to De-Frag the NTFS volume, to keep the performance steady. This is the only downside I see to using NTFS as my cross-platform filesystem for files that need to be available both for Windows and Linux. My only other viable alternative is FAT32, which is universally supported, but the data integrity there is pathetic because there's no journal, so... not happening.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by allquixotic View Post
    My only other viable alternative is FAT32, which is universally supported, but the data integrity there is pathetic because there's no journal, so... not happening.
    NTFS doesn't do data journalling, does it? I've lost far more data on NTFS than FAT32, including a two gigabyte file that Internet Explorer was downloading overnight on my 512k DSL connection some years back (machine beeped when the file finished downloading, I couldn't be bothered to get out of bed and turn it off, power went out, machine rebooted, after chkdsk ran the file was gone).

    That said, there are plenty of other good reasons not to use FAT32.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by elanthis View Post
    If your WDDM driver in Windows crashes, it just restarts, and even quite a few apps that use D3D directly can recover from that restart without a hitch. It's pretty awesome.
    Maybe, but it has to do that because I see far more video driver crashes in Windows than in Linux. Same machine, both operating systems using proprietary drivers from Nvidia, and I spend about 10x as much time running Linux on it than Windows.

    While it may be awesome, fixing the regular crashes would seem like a better idea than trying to work around them in this way.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by allquixotic View Post
    Of course I do own a professional copy of DiskKeeper on the Windows side, which I use to De-Frag the NTFS volume, to keep the performance steady. This is the only downside I see to using NTFS as my cross-platform filesystem for files that need to be available both for Windows and Linux. My only other viable alternative is FAT32, which is universally supported, but the data integrity there is pathetic because there's no journal, so... not happening.
    udf

    look into it.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by energyman View Post
    udf

    look into it.
    Not a bad idea in principle, but UDF filesystems are read-only in Windows XP unless you install a third-party driver.
    Last edited by Ex-Cyber; 06-27-2011 at 01:15 PM.

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