The first German-Turkish "Döner" Food Restaurant in the US:

[Qaridarium]

Interesting - I've seen "traditional Turkish recipes" calling for slices of marinated meat stacked on a skewer and recipes calling for minced meat but never one that uses both. Is this something you get in Germany ?

we do have a lot of döner buden in germany and all use both because its against the law only use minced and without minced its to expensive.
because this all use minced and full meat. they also use the refrigerator to stabilize it its freezed in the mid and they earn the finish stuff out of the circle.

i found the miracle of döner on wikipedia ! marinated meat stacked+ minced
stacked on a skewer and only the freeze stabilize it!
without the freeze it just runs of the skewer.

You didn't mention cooking times for the meat

LOL thats because döner do not have cooking time if you heat it up faster you can earn faster you can earn all meat thats "brown" and finish on the outside !
the trick is in the mid its frozen and you only cut of tiny stripes from the brown finished outside.

really there is no "cooking time" you earn it half frozen

- do you cook it through before slicing

NO! biggest fail ever to cook it through... LOL--- you earn it half frozen because you allways earn from the finish outside the brown stuff and after that you heat it up for more brown stuff anf earn more brown stuff.

do have stripes of a lot of brown stuff.

or is there some kind of "just in time cook" going on where the outside is cooked, the inside might not be, and hopefully the rate of cutting & serving does not get ahead of the rate of cooking ?

yes döner is fast food its just in time cook! you only get the outside for the döner and the inside is for later döners.

you can make döner like a maschin gun because you never run out of brown meat big systems are faster than you can built the döner for customers.

Do you cook from frozen or thaw before cooking, or does it just spend enough time in the freezer to chill but not freeze ?

no! it musst be totally frezed -25C! because its the only factor to bring stability.


it goes dirctly from frozen to brown meat...

Maybe a typo, but you mention baking soda in the list of ingredients but not in the instructions.

no its not a typo... because there are many differnt baking soda products! and you have to read the product information first!

normaly its 1-2g per 0,5kg flour

Any chance your 0,5g of salt (0.1%)should be 5g (1%) ?

ubs.. you should go with 0,5% up to 3% sure.

i just fail here LOL

My usual recipe is along the lines of :

2 cups / 305g flour
7/8 cup / 190g water (63%)
3/4 tsp / 4g kosher salt (1.3%)
3/4 tsp / 3g Fleischmann's Quick-Rise instant yeast (1%)

really what does kosher salt mean? is there a different from salt and kosher salt?
i think kosher salt is just bullshit... because all salt is kosher.

and you just waste your money from the 3g /1% instand yeast.
you can use 0,5g or 1g for the same result you only have to wait double time.

As Q says, the amount of yeast is a function of both the type of yeast you are using and the amount of time you plan to let it work before baking.

thank you very much for this!!

I use roughly the amount above if I'm planning to bake the dough within a few hours of mixing, but go down to maybe 1/4 tsp if I'm going to leave the dough in the fridge for a few days and pull it out when needed (eg when people drop by and "feel like pizza" not realizing that I live about 30km from the nearest pizza place).

LOL right!... after reading this this is obsolede: "and you just waste your money from the 3g /1% instand yeast.
you can use 0,5g or 1g for the same result you only have to wait double time. "

Presumably the doner meat is cooked at this point (either cooked through or at least cooked on the outside) and you are just shaving off the cooked bits from the outside ?

yes! in the mid its frozen and you shaving of the cooked bits fro the outside! thats the magic trick of döner!

Our local restaurants also have rodent problems but I normally leave the mice out when cooking at home. Do you think that affects the taste very much ?

??? you just can not make a döner without freezing the meat!
because you need the stability to cut of the stripes.

Inspired by this thread I made a sort of "Canadian breakfast doner-kebab"

nice please shot a picture!

- fresh baked pitas using the recipe above divided into 8, some rolled flat & others "pulled" flat like a pizza crust. I wasn't really paying enough attention to know which ones rose better, but the pita shaped like circles definitely rose better than the ones shaped like, say, Madagascar. Oven at 500F / 260C ("non-professional noob" ) on a pre-heated baking sheet, maybe 4 min for the first side and 2-3 min more after flipping them over. There does seem to be an optimum size - the smaller ones become almost spherical - I would probably divide into 6 next time rather than 8.
Filling was thin slices of leftover meatloaf cooked up with some onions, hot peppers and chopped up leftover potatoes, then scrambled with a couple eggs and stuffed into half-pitas along with some more (raw) onions. In the absence of authentic Turkish sauces I found that a combination of sriracha and commercial coleslaw dressing (hey, I have to keep it in the house, some people like it) was surprisingly good.
A good wheat beer would have been better than coffee, of course, but coffee was what I had...

yes nice !... and hey coffe is right because the german tuerkey döner buden do allways have coffe and tee.

[bridgman]

we do have a lot of döner buden in germany and all use both because its against the law only use minced and without minced its to expensive. because this all use minced and full meat.

Interesting. I guess that (mix of mince and full) was predictable. I found a few pictures of doner rotisseries 5 or 6 feet tall where the meat was nothing but huge hunks of lamb spiked on the rotisserie. None of the pieces of meat were big enough to cover the full circle so they were more like spokes in a wheel than a stack of slices.

yes döner is fast food its just in time cook! you only get the outside for the döner and the inside is for later döners. you can make döner like a maschin gun because you never run out of brown meat big systems are faster than you can built the döner for customers.

OK, the Euro systems must be bigger than what we usually get here. I had kind of a bad feeling in a couple of local restaurants where the heat element beside the vertical rotisserie seemed more like a big candle than a big "wall of heat".

What happens if you have nice brown meat and no customers show up for a while ? Does someone have a quick hand on the heat control or does someone get "crunchy doner" ?

no! it musst be totally frezed -25C! because its the only factor to bring stability. it goes dirctly from frozen to brown meat...

Hmm, so there's some judgement required. That's probably a better idea in Europe than in North America. It's becoming increasingly common for food safety laws to require that the doner slices be re-fried on a griddle before serving, after some nastly "all minced, served uncooked" e-coli incidents out west.

really what does kosher salt mean? is there a different from salt and kosher salt? i think kosher salt is just bullshit... because all salt is kosher.

Agreed, I probably should have said "kosher salt" (with quotation marks) - around here large crystals of salt are usually referred to as kosher salt, or occasionally pickling salt, as opposed to the finer grained "table salt". I use kosher salt partly because a lot of my favorite recipes call for it (particularly bbq rubs) and partly because I find I get the same amount of salty taste with less actual salt.

nice please shot a picture!

I was thinking about taking pictures, but we were thinking about eating breakfast as well, and breakfast won. I still have pitas left over so will try for pics next time.

[bridgman]

Flatbread doesn't need any of that. Its only ingredients are flour, salt and water.

This is one of those "you're both right" situations -- as you say, there are lots of flatbread recipes which do not use any kind of leavening, and where the time between mixing and baking is far too short for natural yeast to have any effect.

On the other hand, all of the Turkish flatbread recipes I saw (doner kebab seems to use Turkish flatbread styles) called for some yeast, and some of them called for the overnight fermentation of a sponge which would have worked with natural yeast as well as it works with commercial yeast today.

On balance I have to give this one (and the 100 euros) to Q.

[Qaridarium]

Interesting. I guess that (mix of mince and full) was predictable. I found a few pictures of doner rotisseries 5 or 6 feet tall where the meat was nothing but huge hunks of lamb spiked on the rotisserie. None of the pieces of meat were big enough to cover the full circle so they were more like spokes in a wheel than a stack of slices.

the lamp full meat version is the traditional turkey version not the german döner
also the German döner uses cow meat insteat of lamb. and yes the mince mix with the full is also the german version.

in germany also angela merkel our prime president makes döner:



i found some pictures how to make döner meat:





means its really 50 mieced and maybe 30-40 full meat and other stuff like spices.

OK, the Euro systems must be bigger than what we usually get here.

sure in germany we do have 1,5m high versions and radius of 0,5m

means 150kg of meat!!!!

I had kind of a bad feeling in a couple of local restaurants where the heat element beside the vertical rotisserie seemed more like a big candle than a big "wall of heat".

LOL don't worry its save

What happens if you have nice brown meat and no customers show up for a while ?

you can slow down the heat... to get less brown meat.

Does someone have a quick hand on the heat control or does someone get "crunchy doner" ?

its both of them... some customers get a crunchyer version and some customers have to wait until the meat is brown again.

Hmm, so there's some judgement required. That's probably a better idea in Europe than in North America. It's becoming increasingly common for food safety laws to require that the doner slices be re-fried on a griddle before serving, after some nastly "all minced, served uncooked" e-coli incidents out west.

in the us you have to sell all in a half day and in germeny you need to sell all in 1 day.

no one re fried it!

but you can save the brown meat to make nice pizza
döner pizza...

Agreed, I probably should have said "kosher salt" (with quotation marks) - around here large crystals of salt are usually referred to as kosher salt, or occasionally pickling salt, as opposed to the finer grained "table salt". I use kosher salt partly because a lot of my favorite recipes call for it (particularly bbq rubs) and partly because I find I get the same amount of salty taste with less actual salt.

ok please stop this ALL salt is kosher! maybe you should use words like this "natural salt blocks" or fresh crushed salt ? or sea salt..`?

but i think döner for general is not kosher because the milk in the meat... "you should not boil a cow in his mothers milk"

I was thinking about taking pictures, but we were thinking about eating breakfast as well, and breakfast won. I still have pitas left over so will try for pics next time.

ok.. meybe next time.

[Qaridarium]

This is one of those "you're both right" situations -- as you say, there are lots of flatbread recipes which do not use any kind of leavening, and where the time between mixing and baking is far too short for natural yeast to have any effect.

On the other hand, all of the Turkish flatbread recipes I saw (doner kebab seems to use Turkish flatbread styles) called for some yeast, and some of them called for the overnight fermentation of a sponge which would have worked with natural yeast as well as it works with commercial yeast today.

On balance I have to give this one (and the 100 euros) to Q.

hey thank you for my virtual 100 euro

"is far too short for natural yeast to have any effect. "

i do not talk about effect i just point out there is Yeast in it!

if he talk bullshit like there is only flour salt and water... then he is just another noob...

flour contains "yeast"

i know this very very well because i do have illnes histamin-intollerance and Yeast makes histamin means Yeast is my personal ENEMY!

and because of the high dosage of natural Yeast in the flour of Wheat (Triticum spp. i can not eat this!

this makes me ILL!

i can only eat Spelt (Triticum spelta) flour because its low in natural flour.

[Death Knight]

Hi guys. I am Turkish and living in istanbul... Like eating...

Firstly don't think if you eat döner before if you don't eat it at Turkey. Specially in "Bursa" city where it is first invented.

Here is no one eat döner here if it is build from minced meat. Real döner made from not minced, oily meat. Generally there is mixture from cow and lamb meats. They control oil of meat with it. If they put all lamb meat, it's better but expensive. Also people think that it's not healthy due oil. BUT that is not so true... Because if lamb eats natural grass etc... Than that oil not harmful but healthy. But if that lamb grown by eating "artificial feeds" like GMO Corn and others, than it's oil became hazardous for our healths. It's scientifically proven here... So that's why some human calls Monsanto as an evil... You have better to watch this for your health...

Anyway, they don't add any flour or water into döner originally. It is just meat and some spices like the salt, black pepper, oregano, cumin, mint and sweet red pepper... That's all.

[bridgman]

ok please stop this ALL salt is kosher! maybe you should use words like this "natural salt blocks" or fresh crushed salt ? or sea salt..`?

I'm using the words on the side of the box.

(goes to the kitchen and confirms)

Oops, I'm using the words that were on the side of the *last* box. This one says "coarse salt".

Right three times out of three. You should go buy lottery tickets

[Qaridarium]

Hi guys. I am Turkish and living in istanbul... Like eating...

Firstly don't think if you eat döner before if you don't eat it at Turkey. Specially in "Bursa" city where it is first invented.

Here is no one eat döner here if it is build from minced meat. Real döner made from not minced, oily meat. Generally there is mixture from cow and lamb meats. They control oil of meat with it. If they put all lamb meat, it's better but expensive. Also people think that it's not healthy due oil. BUT that is not so true... Because if lamb eats natural grass etc... Than that oil not harmful but healthy. But if that lamb grown by eating "artificial feeds" like GMO Corn and others, than it's oil became hazardous for our healths. It's scientifically proven here... So that's why some human calls Monsanto as an evil... You have better to watch this for your health...

Anyway, they don't add any flour or water into döner originally. It is just meat and some spices like the salt, black pepper, oregano, cumin, mint and sweet red pepper... That's all.

you fail here because the tropic is the German version Döner... the restaurant is called the Berliner Döner Kebab
we already point out that the German version is cow meat and minced+full meat and the original turkey Kebab is lamp without minced
i already point this out!
also the original one is not FAST-FOOD the German version is FAST-FOOD...
also the original turkey version is flat bread and the german version is a blow-up version.

the german version is called "Döner Kebab" its made with Pide and the turkey version is called döner kebap mostly Yufka Dürüm Döner kebap

thats different ;-)

if you buy a Döner Kebab in germany you get a Blow-up Pide with cow minced meat+full meat

if you buy a dürüm döner kebap you get a Yufka with lamp meat....

[Qaridarium]

I'm using the words on the side of the box.

(goes to the kitchen and confirms)

Oops, I'm using the words that were on the side of the *last* box. This one says "coarse salt".

Right three times out of three. You should go buy lottery tickets

LOL.... "coarse salt"... LOL ;-)

maybe even your salt blessed by a rabbi? then maybe its kosher salt ?

hey i'm only constantly wrong if it comes to open and closed source drivers LOL...

i all the day of the video codex acceleration radeon driver 4 times in a round and every time you leave me hanging LOL

[bridgman]

OK, pics. This little abomination used a small, oddly shaped pita cut in half and filled with onions, peppers, home-made sauerkraut and thinly sliced "St. Louis pork steak" (slices of pork butt, but cooked more like ribs). Doesn't look a lot like the pic at the front of the thread, but then again I had no lettuce, tomato or doner. I'm guessing that the real thing uses a quarter of a much larger flatbread, is that right ?

The sauce in the pics is the same as I used earlier - bottled coleslaw dressing with sriracha on top - but I got tired of the sweetness and switched to a 50/50 mix of yogurt and sambal oelek (chili paste). Still probably not authentic but it has to be closer than coleslaw dressing and I like the taste better.





The sauerkraut had caraway even if the bread didn't.

EDIT - I bet professional photographers don't have to worry about sriracha stains on their backdrops.