Page 7 of 8 FirstFirst ... 5678 LastLast
Results 61 to 70 of 71

Thread: "Berlin pirates force FDP to walk the plank"

  1. #61
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    258

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Panix View Post
    Do you need any kleenex?

    You're right, though, about that one thing. People are stupid. They'll elect proven liars and make excuses for it.

    It's why democracy doesn't work.

    I'm just wondering why few look at the big picture or care enough to look at it rationally. Politicians are not your friends. They don't serve you, they serve themselves. When things go wrong, they always find a way to benefit. Look at retired politicians, often bankers and lawyers, and their pensions they receive even when they contributed to destroying their country.

    I firmly believe Germany and most of Europe is going for a major fall and those bankers/politicians will still benefit. I know it's not the best comparison but I liken it to what happened in Soviet Russia at the end of the 80s and in particular, subsequent economic transformations in mid-90s under Yeltsin. Except, in Germany's case, there is such a connection and link to most of the other European countries. Germany's exports are mostly to other EU countries and other European countries not in the EU so they don't want a collapse yet so are doing anything to bail out Greece, Italy, Spain etc. They'll sacrifice the populace to delay the inevitable as long as possible. But, there is an end plan when those policies don't work. The Euro gets devalued and it's easy for the elites and bankers that control things to pick up businesses and property for dirt cheap (look at Russian oligarchs). But, it will be on a wide (global) scale. Germans should wake up and stop being so deluded.

    For now, taxpayers will be asked to shoulder the entire burden with higher taxes and significantly more debt. Enjoy!
    Where do you know all that? I live in this land and life here seems to be quite stable. Sure, we've been paying somewhat more for our food over the years, but most people have a job and a normal life. Those who complain just complain because Germans like complaining, it's not a new thing. It's good living here.

    It seems to me that during this financial crisis, a lot of people are pulling scenarios out of their asses. Fact is what I said about politicians is true -- try to become one and you'll see it yourself. But everything you said is just speculation.

  2. #62
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    3,153

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by susikala View Post
    Where do you know all that? I live in this land and life here seems to be quite stable. Sure, we've been paying somewhat more for our food over the years, but most people have a job and a normal life. Those who complain just complain because Germans like complaining, it's not a new thing. It's good living here.

    It seems to me that during this financial crisis, a lot of people are pulling scenarios out of their asses. Fact is what I said about politicians is true -- try to become one and you'll see it yourself. But everything you said is just speculation.
    Politicians make excellent scapegoats when things are going badly. No one wants to accept the possibility that they might be partially responsible for the current mess - it's so much easier to blame everything on that other guy.

  3. #63
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    315

    Default

    The world uses a fractional reserve currency system it works out of debt creation. When you go to a bank to get a house loan you countefeit money and make the counter party whole. The bank does the actual counterfeiting for you based on your signature and promise to pay. What it doesn't counterfeit is the interest. So the system can never function and never be paid back. Principal does not and never will equal principal + interest. It attempts to keep the debt real while not ever explaining that it can't be real. All it can do is make some people rich and some people poor. Until the rich realize they can't ever possibly be paid back anyway. This is why housing prices always have to go up. As they go up it keeps the interest portion of the system from over shadowing and crushing the countefeiting portion. The problem is it's inherently geometric and people try to force linearity on it.

  4. #64
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    3,153

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Hephasteus View Post
    The world uses a fractional reserve currency system it works out of debt creation. When you go to a bank to get a house loan you countefeit money and make the counter party whole. The bank does the actual counterfeiting for you based on your signature and promise to pay. What it doesn't counterfeit is the interest. So the system can never function and never be paid back. Principal does not and never will equal principal + interest. It attempts to keep the debt real while not ever explaining that it can't be real. All it can do is make some people rich and some people poor. Until the rich realize they can't ever possibly be paid back anyway. This is why housing prices always have to go up. As they go up it keeps the interest portion of the system from over shadowing and crushing the countefeiting portion. The problem is it's inherently geometric and people try to force linearity on it.
    Huh? I'm not sure I understood that properly, it doesn't seem like English is your native language. But when you get a loan from a bank, nothing is "counterfeited". Actual money is transferred from their account into yours.

    The central banks do create new money out of thin air, under the supervision of governments. That's not free, though, it just ends up getting paid for through inflation. Inflation is not inherently geometric - it merely depends on how much new money governments create each year.

  5. #65
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    315

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by smitty3268 View Post
    Huh? I'm not sure I understood that properly, it doesn't seem like English is your native language. But when you get a loan from a bank, nothing is "counterfeited". Actual money is transferred from their account into yours.

    The central banks do create new money out of thin air, under the supervision of governments. That's not free, though, it just ends up getting paid for through inflation. Inflation is not inherently geometric - it merely depends on how much new money governments create each year.
    Beep wrong. The government does not supervise the banks. The banks supervise the government. First off.
    Secondly. Yes smitty when you go to a bank to get a home loan you are counterfeiting money. When you amortize a loan over 30 years you end up paying about double for the house. This shrinks the money supply. When the money supply shrinks too much from this you get into a house flipping frenzy because it recounterfeits the money. This is done on every level. And eventually you end up with what we have. GM became a loan company that made the things it gave loans for. Which is why right before the crash GM had about 10 percent of their car loans default.
    Banks don't have an "account". They simply digitally create the money. Hollywood makes stories about Jimmy Stewart being a suicidal banker and some funny ass story about how the towns savings is the towns loans. The average american can't handle a 1000 dollar emergency. You think they got bankroll to front your 400 grand house for 30 years. Banks have very small amounts of cash on hand and they can't even pay depositers. They use the cash on hand as interbank lending tools moving it around and sorta keeping track of it.

    Have you never wondered why the system can not tolerate more than a 62 to 65 percent home ownership rate? Because that's approximately what homeowners leech out of society to pay for houses which they don't own anyway because the state taxes you on your house.

    Money is even counterfeited into the stock market. You take the average company that has millions of shares issuance and it becomes apparent that they are counterfeiting the shares. Microsoft is valued at 70 billion dollars or 55 billion dollars or whatever. But it actually loses money every year and has since 1999. It pays itself with stock ipo's and keeps issuing shares and watering down the stock. This is because the government has huge pension funds for the half of society that makes rules and enforces rules on the other half of society. Those are all unfunded by taxes and any sort of revenue. So it's forced to counterfeit money and buy stocks in companies and post them as retirement and pension funds. It's a great and sometimes funny thing. Like when a company is forced to or stupidly buys another company who has weird ponzi valuation and no price earnings ratio. They are safe from hostile takeover because to buy one out you'd have to pay 10 times what it's worth from it's earnings which you have no idea what it's earnings are because they simply lie about earnings and issue more stock.

    The government doesn't actually produce or do anything useful to society so yes it does counterfeit. This is why you get things like yahoo and microsoft and things that grow at exponential rates. Because they are counterfeiting. Goldman Sachs is the only company allowed to do ipo deals so they essentially charge companies to counterfeit. Hedge funds own all of apple and it's a toy company that makes gadgets. When you use a gold and silver coinage system the government simply debases the coinage. By the time the roman empire ended there was hardly 5 gold atoms in a gold coin and barely 8 silver atoms in a silver coin. It ends when people cut the coins down and countefeit them. To avoid debasing and complaints about debasing they simply make every currency relative to gold. Take the price of gold in one currency and the price of gold in another currency and divide them then look up the currency pair and you'll have the matching number for the divisor. Since all the banks are run by Rotchilds the only non relative valuation players in existence used to be Iraq Iran, Libya, Sudan, North Korea, and Cuba. Iraq got attacked, Libya had a revolution involving rebels who set up a central bank and had france declare them legitimate and Israel is continually espionaging and attacking sudan. That's because libya wants gold for oil. And just like the british who wanted tea but ran out of silver to pay the chinese for tea ended up parking ships off the coast and hooking the place on opium which weirdly was paid for with silver.

    All the fed has done for the last 3 years is buy up stock in permanent open market operations. Any company that needs money issues stock IPO's and the goverment buys them up with society joining in to some extent but not much. There were record stock IPO's end of 2007 right before the crash. The record was broken 4th quarter 2010.

    When you counterfeit a house loan on a debt based system. You owe society the money back. The banks just stand in for society and run the government off your counterfeiting operation. Accounting and learning accounting is just an elaborate ruse to make people believe the there is a real system that works in a real world. When banks take 100 billion of the 700 billion dollar tarp and fractionally reserve it into a trillion. There's nothing "accounting" about it. It's counterfeiting. Just like the first central bank charter of the US. They took the money congress gave them and loaned it out to each other and counterfeited the supply. When the banks pretend to pay you interest which gets more than eaten away through inflation and when they pretend to let you join in on the counterfeiting scam because you gots you a good "paying" job even though though they tax you to death. And when you buy a stock that get's ponzied up through big time counterfeiters you "feel" like you're participating. But until you have a machine that can spit out money for anything you want in the world you aren't playing ball and until you have a government job that has cost of living raises and a retirement that's 3 times bigger than your wages over the lifetime of the job you aren't "in" the game.

    Your mind rejects everything I said because you've been lied to so deeply and so long believing it causes a huge cognitive dissonance. You cried your little eyes out when jimmy stewart climbed up on the bridge and it was all fake, and all acting and all a lie. It's just like cops. They work for politicians. Politicians are liars and cheats yet the cops uphold the laws for them. They think they are the good guys because they want to think they are. And just like when america outlawed alchahol and then shot and imprisoned people who made alchahol and then after all the alchahol makers where shot and imprisoned they celebrated by making huge freaking corporation that made beer and jack daniels not by the gallon but by the millions of gallons. Because it's not about if it's wrong to lie or wrong to kill or wrong to harm society. It's wrong to allow anyone to threaten your monopoly use of those powers. I mean look at judges. They wear freaking robes. Like they are grand puba wizards. When you graduate high school and college you get to wear the robes for a day. Which means you have been trained to be a sucky judge who has no idea what is going on. The real judges do know what's going on. Make rules, enforce them, follow them if you think you'll get caught but if not you know all the psychotic killers and insane punishers. The sociopaths handle the mental twisting and emotional manipulation, the psychopaths handle the arm twisting and knee breaking if your mind becomes too strong for the sociopaths.

  6. #66
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    2,264

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by psycho_driver View Post
    He has been hampered by the most childish and incompetent congress in US history.
    Too true.

    but Obama attempted to follow through on many of his campaign promises.
    Yes... and no...

    Close guantanamo bay, start another and export prisoners to even worse jails in other countries.

    More transparent government, yes, but 47% more information request downturns than Bush administration, because of Governm-er... National security.

    Get out of Iraq! -> enter Afghanistan.

    "Democracy is build upon freedom of information" -> chase WikiLeaks.

    Fight corruption -> fire one Google lobby guy, get twenty more lobby guys back in.

    EEEErrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr....

  7. #67
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    2,264

    Default

    @Hephasteus,
    Nice theory...

    In the end we need this fscked up schemes to keep that country running. Money is nothing but motivation. Who's going to clean your sewercanal, when everybody has enough money? Right, so you need to make sure that nobody can get a fair savings opportunity (inflation), or the country goes to shit.

    The fact that the country is bankrupt is like fsck-all. I bet China is happy that they can buy awesome world companies.

    In the end of the day: It doesn't matter if you're bankrupt or not; People still lay roads. You can still buy food. Nothing physical and visual is actually going to hell. Stop caring so much for the non-existant system;

    We are human being who need motivation to do shit. Countries and politics are nothing but an illusion, so stop caring, or invent a better system.

  8. #68
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    71

    Default

    Ok guys, I'm German and I want to contribute a little. I don't live in Berlin though, so I didn't vote in this election.

    First, Berlin, in this case (the election we talk about), is a federal state. A state in the shape of the biggest City in Germany, with a population of almost 3.5 million. Germany has a population of close to 82 million. Germany has 15 federal states, three of which (Berlin, Hamburg, Bremen) are bigger cities. Not all big cities, like e.g. Munich, are states by themselves, Munich is part of the federal state Bavaria.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berlin
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/States_of_Germany
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germany

    Berlin is also the city where the German government sits, it's not the German government that the election was about, it was just about the government of the federal state Berlin.

    Oh, and the ZDF (like the ARD) is not government TV. It's TV under public law, the government isn't allowed to guide opinions and contents of those TV (and radio) stations and they are not financed by the state, yet by some fund that every owner of a radio or TV has to pay for by law. Very complicated and many people don't understand it even here. It's about granting that TV and radio do carry education and political information (hopefully not propaganda) to the audience, but they also do carry stupid cheap stuff for the sake of high numbers in audience measurement. Quite complicated ... well, simply said: comparable to the good old BBC. Like the BBC, they manage to deliver quality journalism once in a while, a lot more frequently than the private stations.

    But please don't start to discuss the public german TV here, the Obama stuff is far off the topic already.

    Right, back to topic.

    The main reasons, from my perspective, the pirate party have been voted for, are civil rights and transparency. The most votes they pulled from another political party in this election was from the FDP, which has once been the party of civil rigths, I could have voted for that FDP, 30 years ago, too. But the FDP has turned more and more into an egoistic rich people's party.

    The other party the pirates have pulled lots of votes from (yet less than from the FDP) is the green party. The greens have once been the grass roots, transparancy party (as part of their main ecological goals). But as they are an established political party who have been the minor part of many german governments (in federal states and even in the main German government) their spirit has worn off alot. The greens have also tried to be the party that cares most about computer related, online, information privacy and so on, but many of the greens just don't understand the matter and that's another point where the pirates kick in.

    And they pulled in a lot of previously-non-voters. Most political comments seem to see this as a good thing as the pirates seem to raise interest in political processes and belief in the possibility of political honesty - through transparency.

    Oh, and the Pirates dislike political correctness, that's a reason why they call themselves the Pirates. They do know that the word "pirate" doesn't have a good meaning under all circumstances, that a rape-plunder-and-kill pirate is the opposite of everything they stand for. But that's the case for almost any programmatic word anyways, maybe except for "love". Which would be a silly name, no?

    Many people, the pirates' voters as well as other politically interested, say the pirates will have to deliver what they have been voted for, otherwiese they'll vanish as quickly as they have surfaced. They had a greenhorn bonus this time (none of them was a politician before), they won't have this bonus in the next election. Also they won't have such an easy start in other German states, especially those which are less urbanized.

    I hope they can deliver, especially when it comes to civil rights, anti-censorship, transparency and information privacy.

    Other stuff like basic income grant and free public transport were on the agenda of the Berlin pirates only, the basic income being a very complicated question anyway, I don't see that coming under any circumstances. The idea is debatable at least. But that's not what the pirates are all about.
    Last edited by edgar_wibeau; 10-02-2011 at 08:40 AM.

  9. #69
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    315

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by V!NCENT View Post
    @Hephasteus,
    Nice theory...

    In the end we need this fscked up schemes to keep that country running. Money is nothing but motivation. Who's going to clean your sewercanal, when everybody has enough money? Right, so you need to make sure that nobody can get a fair savings opportunity (inflation), or the country goes to shit.

    The fact that the country is bankrupt is like fsck-all. I bet China is happy that they can buy awesome world companies.

    In the end of the day: It doesn't matter if you're bankrupt or not; People still lay roads. You can still buy food. Nothing physical and visual is actually going to hell. Stop caring so much for the non-existant system;

    We are human being who need motivation to do shit. Countries and politics are nothing but an illusion, so stop caring, or invent a better system.
    That non-existant system has 40 million people on food stamps. They would not be fed if it weren't for the fact that they would simply overwhelm and swamp the police force. Monsanto foods has a plan. No food is grown that we do not own. States with less than 10 billion in tax revenues are spending 15 20 billion a year on roads because they do not pay for anything with taxes. They pay for things with bonds and pledge their citzens taxes on repayment. But remember what I told you. When you create money you create money but you do not create the interest to pay it back. It can never be repaid.

    If you think it doesn't matter and it won't affect you then you're freaking delusional. EVERY FUCKING COMPANY IN THE WORLD IS BANKRUPT. It's just a matter of how much countefeit or ponzied money they spend to keep going. The banks are all bankrupt and where from the time they opened thier doors. The fed is a centralizer of all that. Which is why the national debt keeps growing and growing. It will grow until it's so rediculous it loses it's believability factor. Then the illusion crumbles.

    There is an illusionary component to it and money to pay for things doesn't diminish resources. But there are also lies. During the great depression the banks bought up tons of farms. They burned crops to "keep the prices up". But the reality is they burned crops to starve people and make them too weak to fight back.

    You can stick your head in the sand all you want but confessions will be made and capitulations will happen. Bankruptcy will happen to huge companies, huge banks huge countries huge everything. Americans bought 8 billion bullets in 2008, broke that record in 2009. Anyone who says it's going to be alright just wants you unprepared and acting a freaking fool.
    The banks will lay off millions, the post office will lay off millions, if you're a cop or a firefighter or government worker. Your pension is as fucked as a 1980's chrysler employee.

    Bad things are going to happen. This is a co-creation system and you have x number of participants who want things to stay the same and you have y number of participants who want things to change and everything is zero sum. And you are out of your mind if you think you can carry on with y participants out there fucking you over any way they can. People can only share what they have. And if you give them misery they are going to drag your ass out to dinner and share it with you. You're going to know and feel not casual unconcerned ignoring but pure shadenfraud and pure spite and complete and total lack of sympathy. Because misery works on long arcs. You can delay paying the piper but you can't outrun it forever. Denial will get you so far but that just ends up with faster implosions. America can look like detroit not in 10 years or 15 years or 30 years. It can get there in a month.

  10. #70
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    5,411

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by edgar_wibeau View Post
    Oh, and the ZDF (like the ARD) is not government TV. It's TV under public law, the government isn't allowed to guide opinions and contents of those TV (and radio) stations and they are not financed by the state, yet by some fund that every owner of a radio or TV has to pay for by law.
    Forced by LAW=government

    ZDF and ARD ARE Government driven because its forced by LAW without the GOV and there LAW this shit do not exist!

    and no i do not fund this shit! i'm a outlaw! a enemy of the Government LOL

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •