Let's keep the other thread on-topic, and as such that's why I started this other thread, so we could discuss every thing we can think of about an Open Source game. I'd like to take off where Malikith left, hence a quick quote:

Quote Originally Posted by Malikith
Yeah art is always a issue, in my opinion though, at least with my experience with the Quake engines, 3d is easier to handle than 2d. Problem with 3d though is that you need 3d modelers, and well, good ones don't come everyday, at least in open source. I mean take a look at all the 3d open source games, I haven't seen one yet that is fairly mature that has 3d models that come decently close to a retail game nowdays (I'm talking like games from 2004 and beyond).
Indeed... And is not like there aren't any artists willing to participate on projects (like your point bellow), it is about communication between project members and the community (so they can even get more help if needed) and fully understanding what can be expected from the project. In practice, that's VERY hard to do! The project has to be properly advertised amongst the community in the hopes to get as much attention and volunteers as possible, but before doing that, proper planning has to be in place, visual design concepts have to also be in place (so the artists know what the content should look like), and if not a schedule for milestones, a projected route with specific goals. Again, that's much easier said than done. It is easy to imagine how to do it, but very hard to actually DO it.

Quote Originally Posted by Malikith
Unfortunately I'm not a coder, only things I can do with the Quake engines is create levels, but I'm not bad at it. I actually made a level Open Arena but I pulled it because I didn't like the developers very much. It was mainly due to the fact I didn't like where they were bringing the game as far as art (since I hate anime with a passion, but thats my deal), and I didn't like their attitude towards the community. I mean you couldn't even find half the developers, they were in their own private little den somewhere while the main one just sat alone in IRC.
I don't think that a "project manager" has to necessarily be a coder, it is a plus to know how to code (for code review or to modify something you spot, etc), but it is necessary to have a clear idea of where the project is going, and how is it progressing. You can't ask to meet goals which are too ambitious right from the start, not in an Open Source development model, particularly where the people are only committed to the project in their spare time, they've also got lives, is not like the project will have to ask these people (project managers, lead programmers, etc, included) to forget about their life (social, familiar, everything outside work) to work on it... would be absurd. However this also means that progress will be frustratingly SLOW. If the people working on the project know that beforehand, and if there is good communication with each other, a project like this could indeed be pulled off. Again, even if the project won't "capitalize" any monetary goods, it still requires a heavy investment: Time, that's why sponsored development like that of the Linux kernel and other "big projects" would be ideal, particularly if one or more players of the gaming industry would be willing to do it... Like what it happened with CS and Valve (of course CS was eventually "engulfed" by Valve, but the process was similar)

Quote Originally Posted by Malikith
So I guess my point is, would I ever do something like this in the future? Yeah, but I'd also want to be surrounded by the right people at the same time.
I understand what you meant there... (before hand I ask for forgiveness from those ATi users that I may offend with the following comment). It is simply hard to keep the enthusiasm high when you are taking a long time to get to your goal, just like we've seen with the fglrx drivers. It is also hard to keep people involved and willing to participate. Their main priority would be their works, family and friends, and then the project.

Quote Originally Posted by Malikith
But back on track on everything, RPG's are harder to make than FPS's, which explains the large amount of fps open source games. I do see a few open source mmorpg's out, which is nice. But unfortunately I don't know if they will survive the test of time. Because it takes alot of maintenance and baby sitting and money to build a open source mmorpg. But I do hope they survive because I've had some fun with some of them.
I think that much more planning has to go into an RPG game, be it an MMORPG or a single player with multiplayer game. There is quite a LOT of work that has to go into it, particularly from the planning aspects of the game. What would be easier to get done? A game similar to Diablo with a main adventure, a limited RPG aspect and focusing on action and story telling rather than RPG elements, with direct-connect multiplayer action (i.e, no need to connect to a central server to be able to play multiplayer games, and be able to do it in a LAN)? Or an MMO type of game where the complexities are greater, as there is a persistent world with any number of varying people connecting to it from different parts of the world with no central plot, but still some story behind the setting and "universe" and offering compelling adventures for the people joining in?

One obviously requires much more infrastructure than the other, but at the same time has "simpler" gameplay elements as its goal would be to also promote social interaction among the gamers... Not to mention the whole deal of balancing the game, weapons, armor, items, damage, creatures, loot, levels, quests, plot, economy system, etc, etc. An FPS indeed is to a certain point "easier"... The new trend seem to be FPS games with some RPG elements and social interaction that raise the bar for these types of games (ET, ET:QW, CS, TF[2], Battlefield, Call of Duty, etc), effectively in some cases turning them into First Person Role Playing Game Shooter kind of games. In any case, the key element which most never be forgotten when creating a game is to keep the game FUN (which seems to be increasingly hard to achieve nowadays also). Creating a complex game like an RPG or Adventure title, with the Open Source model, for and from the community would be and is, extremely difficult.

No wonder game companies have so many people devoted to any one title (Director, project manager, department managers, writers, artists [2D/3D], programmers, sound engineers, etc, etc), trying to "emulate" such organization is very difficult, and more so depending only on people's spare time.

Quote Originally Posted by Malikith
About the Quake 3 engine, I noticed with cg_shadows 2, that there is nearly no performance impact if the shadows are viewed from a distance, but up close they cause the framerate to drop like a rock.

In my opinion, engine wise anyways, I would either use ioquake3 or the Alien Arena Quake 2 engine. Their Quake 2 engine is actually pretty good.

Hope I made sense hehe.
Yeah, you made perfect sense. Working with the Q3 engine would be one way to do it, although there are other engines which could be used, like Ogre, Crystal Space, Dark Places, etc. The main challenge would be to make the game (using any of these engines) scalable enough to be played on perfectly well supported with Open Source 3D hardware, with the addition of some nice touches for those with more capable hardware or using binary blobs, but I definitely think that the efforts should target platforms such as VIA's Unichrome, Intel's IGP's and R300/400 with Free drivers. Hardware balancing could also be VERY difficult to attain.

I guess that the bottom line is that in order to get such a project going heavy planning must take place before any pixels are drawn or any lines of code or plot are written. Many hours and discussions and concepts must be put on the table before actual work and recruitment could take place. At least, that's the way I see it... With passionate enough people, good communications and clear goals, I think it very possible to pull a very complex project with the Open Source model at its core. I certainly hope some one will step up and actually have the nuts to do it.