Not to sound too cheap / destructive but given the fact that you can buy older (read 9-12 month) AAA games for half the price from the software pyramid 20$ / 20€ is still a lot of money. I grabbed both Mass Effect 1 and Mass Effect 2 for 10€ each. They still give me a lot of fun. That is what Indy developers have to face: Beat the fun older software titles provide for the same amount of money.
I am somewhat with Kano:
In order to make this funding thing work, motorsep needs to provide some more details on the game. What he imagines it to be, some design details and so on. May be using pledgie to rise money in the first place is a smart idea ? (http://pledgie.com)
The main issue with games being independent from commercial content is simply the fact that someone else would have to design / build any assets. I doubt we would see more (free or non-free) FPS available even if a free SDK with free content exists. Take Alien Arena for example: One could grab the content, make new maps and build a SP / Coop shooter from scratch.
The mayor point is more that we do not see a lot open coop shooters may be simply because there seems no big dev interest. Funny enough since many mayor shooter were coop and had big success (L4D / L4D2 / Bulletstorm / Killing Floor).
Oldschool should not mean "no cutscenes". Even very old titles had cut scenes in order to tell a history. Oldschool should not be an excuse for missing features.
I know..."This is not a "community is making the game and one dev is implementing it" project" yadda..yadda...but personally I see only two directions a SP / Coop FPs can move and both are described by the two mods I mentioned: SDQuake and Kleshik.
Either you go the fun-2-be-had line as in SDQuake (huge amounts of ammo, hilarious strong weapons and masses of enemies) or the dark / scary line similar to Kleshik. IMO the darker, more scary setting gives you more options to extend the game by simply modifying the map a bit. L4D gives great examples here. Day and night cycles similar to those in Kleshik for examples. Parts of the game where you have waves of enemies attacking the players (L4D / UT2k4 Invasion). Add longer pauses between the waves plus defining special points the player has to defend plus stuff to fortify (e.g. MG turrets, mines, barricades) and you have a tower defense FPS. And so on.....
Coop / SP means much more than (re)building Doom / Quake in a different settings. The Darkplaces Engine has perfectly proven being capable to render great environments. The rest for building a great game are good ideas, fresh environments, a nice game history and a well working game logic.
Redesigning a Quake- or Doom-alike without fresh stuff is a dead end prior having really started.
Just my 2 cents,
Originally Posted by Darksoul
While I agree that the lack of single-player games is mostly to the much higher design requirements, I'm pretty sure the lack of a promising and modable free base game has something to do with it as well. I consider Nexuiz/Xonotic/Alien Arena/Warsow *not* to be suitable games to easily base a single-player campaign on, as you need to invest quite heavily beforehand: No monsters, no monster AI, no goals/keys/bosses, no means for storytelling etc.. All those would have to be tacked onto game code structured with multiplayer in mind, so it's not just a matter of "grabbing content", "making maps" etc. to have a SP/Coop game - the games just don't support that properly.
In constrast, 15 years later there are still Quake Singleplayer maps being released and I guess Half Life (1) isn't quite dead either. This of course has something to do with those games having been exceptionally popular, but the fact that those games *do* support just "making maps" to create new singleplayer campaigns does help, too.
Of course, I absolutely agree that the availability of a singleplayer SDK (with code AND basic content) won't automatically spawn a flood of singleplayer campaigns either.
That is actually an understatement. Many older games have new maps being built for them. Quite a few are actually far from dead. Does not diminish your point though.
Originally Posted by SavageX
Originally Posted by Tares
Originally Posted by motorsep
For those who want to read up.
Last edited by liamdawe; 11-27-2011 at 04:54 PM.