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Thread: "Ask ATI" dev thread

  1. #701
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mazur View Post
    "Ask ATI" dev thread. Ok, if this is thread where can I ask something then, Are you going to support us better or still mess around?
    In what fashion do you think they're not? They're releasing docs to support open source drivers, actively helping write them (more than they said they would) and working on a more "feature complete" binary driver. So a bit more info of what you mean would be good.

  2. #702
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    Quote Originally Posted by mirv View Post
    In what fashion do you think they're not? They're releasing docs to support open source drivers, actively helping write them (more than they said they would) and working on a more "feature complete" binary driver. So a bit more info of what you mean would be good.
    That kernel 2.6.29 (stable) is not even supported whereas 2.6.30 is on its way and nothing was even said that it will be supported. This month's driver (9.5) was released and it was not even better than 9.4. It looks like nothing's changed from two years. I wanted to buy full AMD computer with my AMD Processor and ATI graphics but if nvidia is much better in this then ATI will lost their customers very quickly. True is that until ATI will release good driver all customers will be gone. Sorry for my english.

  3. #703
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    I would like to know if ATI has plans to test new kernels earlier, because even with all possible tricks you need an extra export in the 2.6.30 tree, would be much more clever for an ati dev to submit that as patch, because some distros are not willig to add extra exports for fglrx - but you can not change old drivers, like 9-3 when there will be no update for legacy cards. the correct way would be of course updating the legacy driver with full 26.30 support.

    Code:
    diff --git a/arch/x86/mm/tlb.c b/arch/x86/mm/tlb.c
    index 61ddfa0..3d26c0b 100644
    --- a/arch/x86/mm/tlb.c
    +++ b/arch/x86/mm/tlb.c
    @@ -279,6 +279,7 @@ void flush_tlb_page(struct vm_area_struct *vma, unsigned long va)
    
            preempt_enable();
     }
    +EXPORT_SYMBOL(flush_tlb_page);
    
     static void do_flush_tlb_all(void *info)
     {

  4. #704
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mazur View Post
    That kernel 2.6.29 (stable) is not even supported whereas 2.6.30 is on its way and nothing was even said that it will be supported. This month's driver (9.5) was released and it was not even better than 9.4. It looks like nothing's changed from two years. I wanted to buy full AMD computer with my AMD Processor and ATI graphics but if nvidia is much better in this then ATI will lost their customers very quickly. True is that until ATI will release good driver all customers will be gone. Sorry for my english.
    There are patches to allow for the latest drivers to work with 2.6.29 - as for 2.6.30, well that I can't say for myself, but I imagine it would work too. AMD nor Nvidia are in the habit of saying much about a driver before it is released, btw. And there is a good article on AMD's driver development cycle - chances are there weren't many changes between 9.4 and 9.5 internally. However, I must say that if you're basing all experience off those two drivers, it doesn't do much for your arguement. And much has changed in the past two years for the average end consumer - even though AMD have also always stated that their primary support belongs to the workstation people (that's where the money is after all).
    And no, nvidia is not much better. I hear a lot of people say "nvidia is better" but it's usually just because they have compiz running nicer for them. And that's it. The nvidia drivers have their fair share of other bugs (go to the nvidia forums and poke around a bit for examples) - and their drivers really haven't moved much in the past couple of years. All I'm saying is: you can expect to have problems with an nvidia card as well.
    But, as you appear to have had problems with the drivers (I'm assuming fglrx) - what problems exactly did you have (other than not supporting kernel 2.6.29)?

  5. #705
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    And you have direct comparison for running games with wine with nvidia and ati cards, do you?

  6. #706
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kano View Post
    And you have direct comparison for running games with wine with nvidia and ati cards, do you?
    Was that directed at me? I'm not sure, but assume so, so forgive me if I'm mistaken!
    And no, I don't (at least, not anything that's recent enough to be considered valid). But the last time I ran with nvidia under linux, it was unstable and buggy as all buggery. Random X lockups, 3d graphics corruption, memory leaks. I haven't had any problems like that with fglrx since AMD took over ATI and dedicated itself to monthly linux releases (well, ok, once I had a wine bug that was fixed the next month).
    Having said that, people have had the exact opposite experience apparently. I just prefer a more reasoned arguement from people, that's all.

    I might say a "binary nvidia vs ati" comparison would be good, but it would only be useful for higher end cards.

  7. #707
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    Well i have got a NV 8800 GTS 512 and a ATI HD 3450, ok, the last one is really slow, but enough to test fglrx. I did not compare speed of course, but when a game fails with fglrx and runs with nvidia then it is of course a driver fault. To be fair, there is a way to crash nvidia drivers too when you use VDPAU with a realy bad input, like bad DVB signal quality with high error rate in H264, then it crashed here too, but where is VDPAU für ATI? It is almost clear that ATI does not see wine support as high priority. Native Linux games usually run - xv is a complete disappointment - at least using Debian 5.0 with Xserver 1.4.2.

  8. #708
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    is ATI to blame for wine problems? or is it based on the fact that most wine devs have/had nvidia cards and worked around the bugs there?

    me - I never had success with wine. No matter which driver. I really do not see why people even bother with it. Wine is bad for linux.

    That said: there is always virtualbox.

  9. #709
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    Haha, Vbox for games, you must be joking. The newly introduced 3d support could use wine d3d libs, so do you think it would be faster than native wine, better forget that idea? wine works nearly perfect for opengl based games, sometimes better as the Linux native binary. DX games are more problematic and slower because there do not always exists OpenGL functions which provide the same features, so you get some extra overhead, but at least not that demanding titles still run fast enough.

  10. #710
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    Yeah I agree that virtual box hasn't been good for games with me. Yet. I'm sure that'll change one day.
    But everything else aside, wine is useful for some things - I actually managed to play Still Life under wine when vista couldn't get it to work (not tried windows 7, but completed the game now). Of course, I still prefer native linux games.

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