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Thread: "Ask ATI" dev thread

  1. #791
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    Well, depends...

    I can use current generation ATi cards with the fglrx blob just fine until OSS Drivers mature enough.

    Also, video acceleration is not an issue. I can see 1080p mkv-s (x264/ac-3) on a 2.5 Ghz dual core Athlon 5050e with 4GB DDR2 and integrated radeon 3200 with VLC on a AMD64 kernel linux. Of course, you can't do anything else while watcing the movie, but it's doable.

    On the 9850 quad core with 8GB RAM i can watch 1080p, transcode flac, run samba, apache2, boinc client with rosseta and climateprediction and browse with firefox (AMD64 kernel > .25)

    I think ATi's blobs are horrible if you have an pre radeon 2xxx card, but with newer cards it is ok. As I've said, provided you don't run boinc, azureus, eclipse with a 800 sources tree, you CAN view 1080p video encoded with x264 on a ~50E X2 at 2.5Ghz... (45W cpu)

  2. #792
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qaridarium View Post
    if you want 100% features OSS you will wait for the R900...
    [...]
    the DHCP/DRM will also be in the R900 chip but in an extra part of the chip.

    on R700/r800 you only can use 3D part and 2D part no Viedeo Acceleration.
    Thanks for the hint. But I'd rather not wait too long, my current pc is well past its duty period now.
    So my question remains: is there an ETA for r800 3D ?

  3. #793
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    Xavier, are you "religious" about oss drivers ? Because current generation ATi cards work more-or-less out of the box. I use 4 different models (3870, 4850, 4830 and integrated 3200) on AMD64 kernel and all work ok. I can see 1080p videos with no tearing or crap, I have dual screen capabilities, 3D acceleration...

    You *can* buy a 48** card today and it will work with the current binary blob from ATi and, when the good people of radeonhd make it to a stable release with 3d support, you could switch to oss drivers.

    However, if you use FreeBSD & co or you are religious about oss drivers, you should wait some until radeonhd people reach a milestone.

  4. #794
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    Quote Originally Posted by CNCFarraday View Post
    Xavier, are you "religious" about oss drivers ?
    Yes I am. Proprietary software developement is my day job, I want that nowhere near my home computer.

  5. #795
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xavier View Post
    Yes I am. Proprietary software developement is my day job, I want that nowhere near my home computer.
    Well... you'll have to wait some time unless you go fore some intel integrated crap...

    I hope you are the patient kinda guy, because there's no oss drivers for any decent video card out there. Nvidia doesn't look like it is opening up soon and the radeonhd people have A LOT of work to do. Don't kid yourself that they are anywhere near a full oss driver. Parts of the driver might work and some 3D support, but it's a far cry from full features support.

    This is one of those things that works against you. I'm all for 100% oss stack but it is not realistic. Maybe if there were 5-6 vendors making 3D GPUs, but with only two players and virtually zero support for linux from game developers, it's not going to happen soon.

    The blobs from ATi work fine with new radeon models for most stuff someone uses linux for anyway. You can always use the blob and switch to radeonhd when they reach the same level of features support.

  6. #796
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    luckily, we don't have to depend on radeonhd and the radeon/overall deelopment did some nice jumps in the last couple of weeks, as can be seen here:
    http://phoronix.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18072

  7. #797
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xavier View Post
    Thanks for the hint. But I'd rather not wait too long, my current pc is well past its duty period now.
    So my question remains: is there an ETA for r800 3D ?
    the architektur is not chance in R800...

    the most features in DirektX11 can also handlet by an R700.

    becourse an hd2000 cart can handel tesslation.

    tesslation is in direktX 11 at the first time.

    overall OpenGL3.2+OpenCL1.0+tesslation= DirektX11

    yes yes i know only shader 4.1 dx11 is shader 5..

    but!... thats only a litle part of the feature list.


    in fakt R800 only brings more shader more speed and shader model 5 ...

    nothing importand for the linux world becourse OpenGL3.2 and up do not have bindings to shadermodel 5..

    on the driver parts.. its nerly the same chip you will get Opensource drivers very fast!
    Last edited by Qaridarium; 08-24-2009 at 09:01 PM.

  8. #798
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xavier View Post
    Yes I am. Proprietary software developement is my day job, I want that nowhere near my home computer.
    nice very nice! i like your point!

    in my Point of view...(its realy only my point) you sould buy an hd5000 based cart.
    becourse of the longer support term.
    i think its nerly 2 years more support..

    only becourse the chip is newer..

    and the idle power consuming the hd 5000 will be much better than the 4870...

  9. #799
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    Quote Originally Posted by CNCFarraday View Post
    The blobs from ATi work fine with new radeon models for most stuff someone uses linux for anyway. You can always use the blob and switch to radeonhd when they reach the same level of features support.
    i use the cloused source driver FGLRX but i buy the cart only becourse of the Opensource driver and specs.

    on 1 pc i use ubuntu 9.10 the stable fglrx do not support this the opensource one works!

    the newest 9.10 alpfa of the fglrx supports ubuntu 9.10 but there is lot of work do to.

    realy all features in the opensource driver are better...

    Radeon=EXA/GEM/TTM fast fast superfast.......
    FGLRX=only XAA SLOW SLOW SLOWWWWWWW

    if the opensource driver dev's will bring this quality to the 3D part...

    the FGLRX will DIE very very fast.

    in my history the opensource driver also be more stable rockstable superstable.....


    for the FGLRX you need access to the Beta progamm an exampel:

    you want play games in wine? oh well 9.8 catalyst the stable one has broken OpenGL extansions your game will run like crap with grafic errors. and the 9.9 beta works much better faster and no grafic errors.
    second exampel you like ubuntu 9.10 alpfa? o yes 9.8 stable do not support this o yes 9.10 alpfa supports ubuntu 9.10 ...

    realy the Opensource driver is very very well for Open minded people!

  10. #800
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    @Qaridarium and Xavier

    You DO know that games are proprietary closed source software, right? If you are sick of closed source and only use open source software, why buy uber-cards at all? I mean, what free, open source games are there that need anything more powerful than am integrated intel 950 crap?

    You are a bunch of hypocrites. You are sick of closed source, but you buy expensive video hardware, and bitch about its open source/closed source drivers... to play closed source games. Or games don't count as as software?

    Are you too cheap to buy the shittiest, cheapest windows license and use it only as a "console os" or are you too scared to download a pirated windows from torrents?

    Up until a few years ago, when we attended some crap M$ development seminars and go a free XP version that I still use, I used XP downloaded from torrents. Why? Because I only boot in it 2 hours per weekned at most to play a few games. It has nothing except drivers and the games themselves and it is utterly useless at anything else. I've been using linux for more than 10 years now and, except a handful of online games that i play from time to time there is NOTHING that I can't do on it.

    Taking this religious crusade against closed source software is stupid, as you just stated you play closed source games. Maybe you need to re-examine you dogmas and your own morality.


    "on 1 pc i use ubuntu 9.10 the stable fglrx do not support this the opensource one works!"

    What pc? What configuration? What video card? What motherboard? WHat everything?

    I have 4 machines at home: two with integrated radeon 3200, one with a 3870 and one with a 4850 and had one at work with a radeon 4830 and ALL WORK FINE with fglrx.

    Maybe you have shitty components, you bought a hua-ximg-me cheapo radeon, soldered together on a boat in the indian ocean, maybe your PSU is crap and it feeds currents with too much jitter to the video card.

    I know what to choose that it works on linux, and it is made by a known vendor, with quality components. I always test my components after I buy them. I always search and read forums and articles for compatibility issues on linux for various components.

    Wake up people! In order to use linux you need hardware. And most PC hardware manufacturers don't give a flying fuck about linux (ATi included). So you are on your own and yuu depend on other people who test these components and reverse engineer API/ABI, firmware and software from the windows world.

    If you want to play games so badly, USE WINDOWS. Period.

    "the newest 9.10 alpfa of the fglrx supports ubuntu 9.10 but there is lot of work do to. "

    I have Ubuntu 8.10 here with AMD64 .26 kernel and Catalyst 9.8 works just fine. Also WTF does the Ubuntu version have to do with it? The kernel is the same, provided that is the same version. Download the fglrx blob from ATi, install it and it works fine.

    "realy all features in the opensource driver are better..."

    Really, like what? I work on fluid simulations software and the open source drivers are crap at this moment. Basic 3D features of the GPU have poor support and (ahem) *advanced* features have no support.

    "Radeon=EXA/GEM/TTM fast fast superfast.......
    FGLRX=only XAA SLOW SLOW SLOWWWWWWW"

    LOLOLOFASSTOMGPONIES! On what? What kernel? What hardware? What software? What GPU/OpenGL features the software uses?
    We DEPEND on the blobs from Nvidia and ATi for our software to work... and it does. The open source driver is really good for watching 1080p Desperate Housewives and browsing. If you bought your video card just for that, i have bad news for you: you've got ripped.

    "the FGLRX will DIE very very fast." Right... DIE DIE DIE! How old are you?


    Also, reading some more posts:

    "tesslation is in direktX 11 at the first time." Ehm, what? What does DX have to do with Linux? What free-open-source games that you or the other guys here play or know about ( i don't know of any ) use GPU accelerated tesselation and it is a core feature ?

    I am very curious because we DO have GPU accelerated tesselation, we made it with GLSL. Apparently you are bitching that SOMEONE ELSE didn't do it for you for free so you can download an open source driver and just call TesselateLoLol() and get a paychek, like they do on XBox development...

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