UT3 linux server/client update

[hmmm]

Courtesy of http://www.linuxhardware.org/

"While hanging out on IRC, I asked the big question of the day, "Has anyone heard from Icculus on the UT3 server or client?" Here's the dialog that resulted from the question:

<icculus> it's stuck in legal
<augustus> Legal? Seriously? Have you had legal involved in previous games?
<icculus> Not like this, no
<icculus> There's some issues with middleware
<augustus> so is the hold-up indefinite?
<icculus> augustus: not indefinite
<icculus> augustus: the politics should be worked out for the server soon, I'm removing the offending piece of code.
<augustus> icculus: And the client?
<icculus> augustus: that's going to take somewhat longer
<augustus> icculus: From the sound of it, there is no ETA then?
<icculus> augustus: I'm not committing to one
<augustus> icculus: I understand. Seems like it's quite out of your hands.
<icculus> If I told you what the specific problem is, you wouldn't believe me
* icculus declines to say more.

And, while I had his attention, I had to ask: "Are you doing a Gears of War port?"
<icculus> augustus: for Mac OS X, yes.
<augustus> icculus: Linux no then?
<icculus> augustus: There's something about a Linux port that the Gears publisher doesn't like...can't quite put my finger on it...
<augustus> icculus: I was afraid of that.
<augustus> icculus: Funny that Mac isn't a competitor but Linux is.
<icculus> I don't speak for Microsoft, but I assume it's just company policy to not do anything Linux related.

And there you have it. Now please don't bother sending Icculus any more e-mail for the time being. He's working on it. The work is almost done. Time to yell at the lawyers! :-) "

[Thetargos]

Figures... It was obvious that Microsoft Games Studios wouldn't tolerate a Linux port for one of the XBox 360 flagship games. That much was to be expected of them, so no comment on this...

About the Unreal 3 port being stuck by "legalities" is rather odd, but from what he said is about middleware, so that's more likely to be about a library or program required for the game to run, and the owner of said code worried about it being released for Linux or some such.

[Malikith]

Figures... It was obvious that Microsoft Games Studios wouldn't tolerate a Linux port for one of the XBox 360 flagship games. That much was to be expected of them, so no comment on this...

About the Unreal 3 port being stuck by "legalities" is rather odd, but from what he said is about middleware, so that's more likely to be about a library or program required for the game to run, and the owner of said code worried about it being released for Linux or some such.

I'm guessing it has something to do with Ageia physics. They're probably the ones holding it up since thats about the only think I can think of thats bundled with Unreal Tournament 3 that could possibly hold it up. I hope Ageia just rots away, they can't be making too much of a profit as it is since I don't see a decent amount of people buying their cards.

I can already tell if Ageia gets too involved with games that are planned Linux ports and shoots them down, they are going to be a enemy. Of course, I don't know the full details of whats going on, but its the most logical explanation I can come up with for the hold up. I mean, what else could it be? As far as I can see when I look at Ageia's site, they have absolutely no mention of Linux. And it is the physics engine that powers Unreal Tournament 3. When you install Unreal Tournament 3 under Windows, it also installs the Ageia Physix software driver for the game.

I'd hate to say it but it may mean the wait for Unreal Tournament 3 could be a very long time.

[Thetargos]

It may just be me, but Ageia doesn't have any kind of support for Linux, and Ryan is making the port, and I'm sure he made sure (since it is an unsupported technology anyway), not to include it. I mean, how could he? It may, though be an issue regarding licensing of Ageia and the release of the game to an unsupported (by them) platform. It would also mean that Ryan might have had to substitute the Ageia specific code for CPU managed code, but since Epic licensed their technology it might be what is holding them back. I remember reading a while back that Epic avoided using such third parties just because of these issues and because they wanted to keep multiplatform, and that's why they did not licensed Havoc for UT200* games, maybe they changed their minds with UT3, this time around, though.

[Michael]

** Somebody has already been working on exploiting his contact at a certain physics company to find out if he knows... **

[Thetargos]

That's good to know, Michael.

Hopefully it is merely a problem regarding Epic releasing the game to Linux (with code substituted), than Ryan making ports of key parts of certain API to Linux (which would obviously concern certain physics company as they didn't give their permission to do that).

[Svartalf]

It may just be me, but Ageia doesn't have any kind of support for Linux, and Ryan is making the port, and I'm sure he made sure (since it is an unsupported technology anyway), not to include it. I mean, how could he? It may, though be an issue regarding licensing of Ageia and the release of the game to an unsupported (by them) platform. It would also mean that Ryan might have had to substitute the Ageia specific code for CPU managed code, but since Epic licensed their technology it might be what is holding them back. I remember reading a while back that Epic avoided using such third parties just because of these issues and because they wanted to keep multiplatform, and that's why they did not licensed Havoc for UT200* games, maybe they changed their minds with UT3, this time around, though.

Considering that Ageia happens to have an API build for Linux, it's a bit odd. But they may not allow someone to USE it as there's no hardware support for their cards yet. Another piece may be the network communications stack. We're just blindly guessing here at this point.

[EDIT] I'm betting it's the network stack that's the offending piece. Heh... Gamespy. They used Gamespy. I've had "discussions" with the Gamespy people off and on over the years- I can see where there might be an issue with that particular piece of middleware. Also worthy of note, it also may be more than one piece too- Bink's used liberally in the game, from what I understand... <*sigh*> Why, oh, why Bink, people?

[Svartalf]

** Somebody has already been working on exploiting his contact at a certain physics company to find out if he knows... **

You MIGHT also want to let that contact know that there's someone out there that'll contract out the port of the driver support for their product as well...

[Thetargos]

Bink is troublesome, but hasn't stopped devs from releasing stuff for Linux even in the Bink format (points to NWN), GameSpy suddenly makes a lot of sense...

[Svartalf]

Bink is troublesome, but hasn't stopped devs from releasing stuff for Linux even in the Bink format (points to NWN), GameSpy suddenly makes a lot of sense...

Bink's concievable- but not likely. It's only another $4k for the Linux version (And it's not residing on the server...)- it's just flipping annoying that there's wonderful LGPLed libs that can do the same things with no cost.

PhysX is plausible, but since it's both a Client and a Server problem, while it's possible there's physics calculations going on in the server code, it'd be just as much of a mess to remove from the Server as the Client if that were the case.

While I could be wrong, my educated guess has Gamespy as the front-runner here.