NVIDIA Talks Of Optimus Possibilities For Linux

[Qaridarium]

This must because there are so few models without Windows available in your country. They are probably considered "luxury" because of their rarity.There is also another flaw in your argument, those models are from different manufacturers, so it's kind of apples to oranges comparison.

Here, since almost half of the models don't have Windows preinstalled the difference in price is the one you actually would expect to see, the Freedos/Linux models are about 100€ cheaper then similar configuration from the same manufacturer with Windows Home Premium preinstalled.

your claim about different manufacturers is bullshit because i search for the "cheapest" this means "manufacturers" don't care. and for the consumers manufacturers don't care!

apples to oranges " its the same amd cpu and amd gpu and amd chipset and so one and so one. ,

"100€ cheaper" in your dreams! you just don'T get the cheapest "windows" and the cheapest OEM i know why this notebook is so cheap there are 3 tricks: First one: its windows 7 starter edition it costs only 14€ (or doller?) second trick: the OEM install do have many preinstalled shitware software ads commercial software and they earn money from this pre installed software and the last trick: its a Amazone only notebook this means amazone use it as a price breaker amazone monopolism bullshit.

This means the ads/commercials +amazone monopole bullshit pay 74€ -14€windows =60€

but yes maybe its only 30€ and 30€ for the pre installed linux on the other PC.

[Qaridarium]

Even though Apple would probably be a lot worse then Microsoft if they had a monopoly, for now the success of Apple is forcing many websites at least to use HTML5, which is a very good thing for Linux. But for tax software and hardware drivers it will not help much. Though, going from 2 versions to 3 is always easier then from 1 to 2.

sure apple help linux on the OpenGL side and the anti "flash" side.

When looking for a replacement for my old Eeepc that died last year, the only laptop smaller then 15" with E-350 APU and without Windows preinstalled available in my country was a Lenovo IdeaPad S205 that came with Freedos. While I didn't like the technical specs much I decided to give it a try, after all the store I bought it from offered the possibility to return it within 30 days if I'm not happy with it.
The thing that really shocked me was that when I tried to update the BIOS, their website only offered a exe file for Windows. Now, if that was the only problem with it I would have probably called tech support to ask them how I'm supposed to run that exe in Freedos, but there were way to many problems with it so I just returned it to the store.

i think you just fail here! because: the .exe is most of the time only a self extracting 7zip like file in the .exe there are 3 files most of the time the ROM and the bios-update-exe and a text file.
you only need the rom file then you can use "flashrom" to flash it into your bios.
just use wine to unzip the .exe

(yes i know this sounds stupid for a linux notebook)

and yes this also prove my clime pre installed OEM linux notebooks are only a LIE!

The thing is, if you want bridgman to convince his bosses that the Linux market is really big and more money should be invested in it you need to come up with "irrefutable proof", not speculations that "it must be bigger then this". So far all attempts to come up with this proof have failed. http://linuxcounter.net is the oldest and most successful attempt at this that I'm aware of and yet they only managed to convince 130187 people to register. I don't see how a form on the AMD site could possibly gather more people. And the Linux Counter could easily be extended to gather information about the graphics card and the driver used like it does now for CPU model and kernel version. The only real problem is convincing Linux users to actually register themselves and their machines and install the machine update script.

companies like amd don't care about stupid stuff like: http://linuxcounter.net

browser statistic on sides like "wikipedia" and the grow rate are much better.

[smitty3268]

It sort of speaks for itself as a product. At some point you have to look at a duck and admit it's a duck.

They barely even support new Ubuntu releases, the accelerated video issues are well known, and don't even try running Gnome-Shell.

I don't know how you can look at fglrx and claim it's suitable for non-workstation type use.

Luckily, we have the open source driver to fill that need.

[jeriza88]

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[asdx]

i hope they left nvidia in the dark. this anti open-source company should die.

I agree with this, we already have nouveau which is rapidly making progress, we don't need nvidia and we don't need their blob.

I'm sure we will manage to have DMA-BUF working with open source drivers and be able to have multi GPU switching on our own.

We need to stop obeying corporations like NVIDIA, they don't care about Linux on the desktop and they don't care about us. We need to cut them off once and for all.

Fuck you nvidia.

[scjet]

It's bad enough that Nvidia OptiMESS is in our Laptops, but now they want to force it into our PC's/Desktops. ?
Yep, "DRM" at its best people.
Intel, Nvidia, (and Microsoft especially) finally KILLED any potential and powerful Linux graphics capabilities. This is also a mess for many Windows Apps/Games as well, unless of course they have Microsoft's -pfft "blessing" ?
I mean wow, thanks a lot, so now when I want to pay +$500 more just for an nvidia 675M I'm really only getting Intels crap GPU/chipset ?

I was about to buy a new Sager/Clevo laptop recently, but well here's some email conversations I had with them, including they're roplies:
------------------------------- snip ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
(newest to latest responses... please read this from the bottom up below)

->They said<-
Hi Rick, all the current high-end models have nVIDIA Optimus technology.

Allen Zhang
Sager tech support

-> I asked<-
From: me
Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2012 4:24 AM
To: Sager Techsupport
Subject: Re: No Optimus support means NO Nvidia at all or no dynamic switching? (Sager Support Case ID:202227)

Hence, it'll only work in Win7 !?
What guarantee is this ?!
And what about "rendering",..., and many other types of graphic-intensive apps/software that don't work well with Optimus, and therefore all performance will suffer ?!
Which means this (675M) nvidia GPU/powerful chipset will NOT work in Linux at all, for example, since nvidia, in colution with Microsoft, Intel, ... have no plans of ever supporting Optimus software-switching in Linux.

This is very sad news, since people are paying top dollar for their powerdull nvidia GPU/chipsets for their laptops, and yet they will NOT get their monies' worth. If I "pay" for an expensive Video GPU/chipset then I have the right to use it when I want, ALL the time, and NOT the manufacturer.

This is afterall, nothing but "theft" on the part of Microsoft, Nvidia, Intel, and Laptop manufactures' who agree to NOT put a GPU controlling feature in BIOS, or atleast they should NOT hardwire the "crappy" Intel "GMA HD GPU"on your high-end-graphics Laptops.
Unless you have not fully explained and understood my quiestion here, and/or Sager does in fact have a model without this Optimess, then I will probably never buy a Sager Laptop again. I will continue looking elsewhere.

Thankyou for your honesty, and please feel free to forward this to nvidia, and sager (sales,....) so that these people can understand how angry many Consumers are over this "theft" by manufacturers.
Thankyou.
"me"

->They said<-
On Mon, May 14, 2012 at 12:30 PM, Sager Techsupport <Techsupport at sagernotebook dot com> wrote:

Hi Rick, model NP8170 is already phased out. The new model NP9170 does not have hardware switch for Optimus technology. The switching is controlled by software. The Intel GMA is the primary GPU. When you launch any graphic intensive programs, the nVIDIA GPU kicks in.

Allen Zhang
Sager tech support

-> I asked<-
From: me
Sent: Sunday, May 13, 2012 6:55 AM
To: websupport at sagernotebook dot com
Subject: No Optimus support means NO Nvidia at all or no dynamic switching? (Sager Support Case ID:202227)

Hello,
I am interested primarily in the NP8170, and/or NP9170, ..., and on your site you are quoted:
"Graphics Processor: Switchable GPU by NVIDIA® Optimus™ Technology - NVIDIA® GeForce™ GTX GPU / Intel® GMA HD GPU"
from: http://www.sagernotebook.com/index.p...el_name=NP9170

Please specifically state, if it is hardware "Switchable", or not, meaning in BIOS ?, since for that kind of money per Laptop I DO Need the option of being able to fully utilize the the full power
of the NVIDIA or (optionally Radeon) GPU.
I may not necessarily be using Window 7 at all.
Also, which Mobile GPU supports hardware switching? ie: 670M, ? 675M ? , ....
Thankyou, and the reason I want hardware switchable GPU selection via BIOS is becuase of this:
http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/show...24&postcount=3

Please let me know your results please

Regards.
me
-------------------- snip -----------------------------------------

Yep, this is all pretty sad,
allrighty then.

[ChrisXY]

This is afterall, nothing but "theft" on the part of Microsoft, Nvidia, Intel, and Laptop manufactures' who agree to NOT put a GPU controlling feature in BIOS, or atleast they should NOT hardwire the "crappy" Intel "GMA HD GPU"on your high-end-graphics Laptops.
Unless you have not fully explained and understood my quiestion here, and/or Sager does in fact have a model without this Optimess, then I will probably never buy a Sager Laptop again. I will continue looking elsewhere.

You are free to express your dissatisfaction with how optimus is handled but could you stop being a nutjob about it?

->They said<-
Hi Rick, all the current high-end models have nVIDIA Optimus technology.

They only sell nvidia stuff? Is for example the radeon hd 7970M not high end enaugh?

Intel, Nvidia, (and Microsoft especially) finally KILLED any potential and powerful Linux graphics capabilities.

Buy a notebook with a radeon 7970 and you have powerful graphics and even if it has powerXpress you have a good chance it'll work on linux.

Unfortunately it's pretty hard to actually find notebooks with the hd 7970m. Why seem Schenker, Eurocom and Alienware to be the only ones that have it at all?

[chithanh]

While this is true, Id like to remind you that AMD also has vision of fglx being workstation-only driver

.Not true. Workstation is first priority for fglrx but I don't think anyone has ever said workstation-only. If you turned the statement around and said that we see 3D workstation as fglrx-only that's probably more true, but it's a completely different statement.

I think it used to be true, until Dell started shipping PCs with Ubuntu preinstalled. They made sure that there are now three distros that fglrx cares about (namely, RHEL, SLED, Ubuntu).

And as of opensource driver, radeon gets too few actual company support and no possiblity for card buyers to support it, except code themself.

This may seem to be the case because buying a Radeon graphics card does not make you an AMD customer. You need to convince the OEMs (AIB partners, large PC vendors) to demand open source Linux drivers. These are the ones that AMD will listen to.

Indirectly, you can lobby hardware review sites to pay more attention to Linux. Manufacturers pay a lot of attention to those sites and take great efforts to cater for them, as they are important multipliers. A forum full of complaints will make AMD budge less than a single comment by Anand, Tom or Kyle.

[curaga]

Charlie (SemiAccurate) has been converted for a while now, and doesn't look like the big names listen to him much.

Or like what happened to Kano, he found a big GL bug, AMD didn't listen until C't reported the same much later.


I guess we need AMD and friends' etc marketing depts to understand the true influence of Michael, Charlie, Kano etc

[chithanh]

The hardware review websites are grouped in tiers according to the number of page impressions.

The tier 1 sites are Anandtech, Tom's Hardware and HardOCP.
Tier 2 sites include e.g. Beyond3D, TPU, HotHardware, VR-Zone, ... and various regional sites like hardware.fr or ComputerBase
SemiAccurate can hardly be called a tier 3 site.

Tier 1-2 receive lots of attention from AMD/Intel/NVidia, tier 1-3 are usually seeded with hardware before launch. (That should tell us where Phoronix is according to hardware manufacturers...).

So if Charlie criticizes some product for lack of Linux support, almost nobody will care. On the other hand, if one of the tier 1 sites or a number of tier 2 sites started basing their recommendations at least in part on Linux open source drivers, then you'd see things moving.