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Thread: Goodbye ATI

  1. #171
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    Quote Originally Posted by RealNC View Post
    Bugs have been filed, of course. They stay for about a year, then they get closed because the driver is considered outdated and you're asked to try a new driver version. The bug is still there in the new version. This continues for 6 years, at which point you stop being their customer.

    Any further questions?

    You mean nvidia or ati now? believe me nvidia has bugs that are ignored too so use the free driver.... nv vs radeon ... no contest really

  2. #172
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    Quote Originally Posted by D0pamine View Post
    You mean nvidia or ati now? believe me nvidia has bugs that are ignored too so use the free driver.... nv vs radeon ... no contest really
    ATI. With NVidia, I only posted one bug in their forums, another guy confirmed, and an NVidia employee then chipped in trying to reproduce the issue (even though I was using an exotic distro - Gentoo.)

    My impression so far with NVidia is that they actually prefer to communicate with their community, like, you know, human beings. ATI usually stays silent or offers some very official-looking walls of text. My guess is that ATI has a USSR-like bureaucracy system in place or something, lol :-/

  3. #173
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    Quote Originally Posted by D0pamine View Post
    You mean nvidia or ati now? believe me nvidia has bugs that are ignored too so use the free driver.... nv vs radeon ... no contest really
    Well, I don't understand your question: Are you stating that nouveau is much worse than radeon or the opposite?
    If you're stating that nouveau is still far behind radeon, you're wrong... ATM, nouveau is almost catching up radeon in a lot of things (except maybe on 2D acceleration, which I don't care too much, as for that I've an Intel SB IGP)... One of the most important things that nouveau, for instance, already does better than radeon in some situations (and as I've a nVidia optimus laptop) is power management... If I buy a new laptop with ATI hybrid graphics, my laptop will consume a lot of power and heat, whereas it seems nouveau (personal experience) already uses (at time of my Archbang install) a relatively lower power profile... that doesn't heat my laptop too much...

    Btw, I know by the nvnews forums that there are problems with nVidia... one of them (and I think it's a shame), is that we have to install a community-based (unsupported?) program to use Optimus (Bumblebee), but aside of that, it was easy for me running my laptop with Bumblebee+nVidia Hybrid Graphics (now with the proprietary driver)...

    Cheers
    Last edited by evolution; 04-02-2012 at 09:21 AM. Reason: missing text

  4. #174
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    Quote Originally Posted by evolution View Post
    Well, I don't understand your question: Are you stating that nouveau is much worse than radeon or the opposite?
    If you're stating that nouveau is still far behind radeon, you're wrong... ATM, nouveau is almost catching up radeon in a lot of things (except maybe on 2D acceleration, which I don't care too much, as for that I've an Intel SB IGP)... One of the most important things that nouveau, for instance, already does better than radeon in some situations (and as I've a nVidia optimus laptop) is power management... If I buy a new laptop with ATI hybrid graphics, my laptop will consume a lot of power and heat, whereas it seems nouveau (personal experience) already uses (at time of my Archbang install) a relatively lower power profile... that doesn't heat my laptop too much...

    Btw, I know by the nvnews forums that there are problems with nVidia... one of them (and I think it's a shame), is that we have to install a community-based (unsupported?) program to use Optimus (Bumblebee), but aside of that, it was easy for me running my laptop with Bumblebee+nVidia Hybrid Graphics (now with the proprietary driver)...

    Cheers
    So all drivers are garbage? That still doesn't justify over dramatic cries of goodbye ati

    Goodbye ATI and hello nvidia? so swap buggy wine and power consumption issues for almost jocular 2d performace and graphical corruption if you're talking blob vs blob. Neither free driver is perfect either but i'll take the radeon driver over the nouveu driver anyday given the choice.

    The problem is that there isn't always a choice... there are lots of nvidia and amd gpus in existance, yes you may choose your next laptop or gpu purchase based on what driver you think is best or which company is shafting you the least but that will not help getting my sisters laptop gpu working in a reasonable and stable way.

    by the way i don't have power issues with the radeon driver as far as i know - which distro are you running?

  5. #175
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    Quote Originally Posted by RealNC View Post
    ATI. With NVidia, I only posted one bug in their forums, another guy confirmed, and an NVidia employee then chipped in trying to reproduce the issue (even though I was using an exotic distro - Gentoo.)

    My impression so far with NVidia is that they actually prefer to communicate with their community, like, you know, human beings. ATI usually stays silent or offers some very official-looking walls of text. My guess is that ATI has a USSR-like bureaucracy system in place or something, lol :-/
    Gentoo is exotic now? I'm using gentoo now and i'm not on a beach sipping a cocktail.... not even eating a bounty...

  6. #176
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    Quote Originally Posted by D0pamine View Post
    So all drivers are garbage? That still doesn't justify over dramatic cries of goodbye ati

    Goodbye ATI and hello nvidia? so swap buggy wine and power consumption issues for almost jocular 2d performace and graphical corruption if you're talking blob vs blob. Neither free driver is perfect either but i'll take the radeon driver over the nouveu driver anyday given the choice.

    The problem is that there isn't always a choice... there are lots of nvidia and amd gpus in existance, yes you may choose your next laptop or gpu purchase based on what driver you think is best or which company is shafting you the least but that will not help getting my sisters laptop gpu working in a reasonable and stable way.

    by the way i don't have power issues with the radeon driver as far as i know - which distro are you running?
    Yes, unfortunately (and you know), all linux drivers have a flaw for some reason, but proprietary nVidia, personally, is the one with less flaws. I think xorg devs should do like Micro$oft in this chapter: If they want their drivers or "blobs" to work, they should comply to xorg specifications (like Microsoft do with DirectX) or "face the consequences". In exchange, xorg developers should start to release, for instance, xorg "LTS" releases, that worked with proprietary/FOSS drivers for a longer time (1 / 2 years, for instance). So, I agree with your statement that there isn't always a choice...

    Well, before I bought my new laptop, I had a toshiba A200 with a HD2600 and ArchLinux x86_64. Every time I used FOSS ATI (I tried it last time on January this year), in the place I had my graphics card I couldn't stand my laptop in my lap and I had to switch to fglrx to make things less hot. Currently I still have an ATI card (4650AGP), but for me there are still some features FOSS ATI don't provide me. One of them (as this card is on a old desktop with a P4 processor) is the need of HW video decoding, and currently, I can only use it with fglrx + mplayer vaapi. If I play a 720p/1080p video with FOSS ATI, I'm not able to watch those videos... Furthermore, when I touch in the desktop case with FOSS ATI and fglrx, I sense (subjectively) some difference in the temperature... (distro of my desktop: Chakra Linux x86)

    Cheers

    p.s.: Look at my previous posts too... I just don't want to be "bashed" by the decisions I've taken, ok?
    Last edited by evolution; 04-02-2012 at 11:27 AM.

  7. #177
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    @ RealNC: Welcome to NVIDIA Land....

    I've been mulling over building a couple boxes using AMD's "APU" chipsets but ultimately decided I wanted to get something done with them and went Intel+Intel/NVIDIA. NVIDIA's blob is rock solid, stable, and has bells and whistles. Bugs/features, nothing beat's NVIDIA's blob... nothing.

    That being said, the blob isn't perfect. I have had ALOT of issues with NVIDIA blobs on my latest system, particularly around 2D performance. I have a NUMA box (Dual LGA1366) and that causes all kinds of memory addressing issues you don't see elsewhere. Finally things are stable/working after I've resolved several issues ( http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=110418 , http://phoronix.com/forums/showthrea...2D-Performance ) , but at the end of the day I've vowed against buying Tyan motherboards (when your mobo manufacturer refuses to fix BIOS bugs and instead tells you to buy new RAM? Really? I reluctantly did and still saw no improvements, and noone would take responsibility for that recommendation over there!), not against buying NVIDIA hardware.

    I think the hardliner FOSS people need to acknowledge that theres more to Linux than "free"- its a technically superior and practical to use. I hope NVIDIA opens up (or at least provides doc) but their implementation is the most compatible and practical at this time, so I'm going to use that for the same reasons I use Linux- its better than the competition for my needs.

    Best wishes!

  8. #178
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    Quote Originally Posted by D0pamine View Post
    So all drivers are garbage? That still doesn't justify over dramatic cries of goodbye ati
    Oh common. This isn't "over dramatic". I'm just a user who expressed his frustration on a public forum meant for discussions around Linux and graphics hardware. I did nothing wrong. Take it for what it is, but don't go and apply the "overly dramatic" label on it.

    Quote Originally Posted by D0pamine View Post
    Gentoo is exotic now? I'm using gentoo now and i'm not on a beach sipping a cocktail.... not even eating a bounty...
    Of course Gentoo is exotic. ATI chose not to support it. If Gentoo was mainstream, it would have been supported.

  9. #179
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    well i'm glad everything is sorted and everyone is happy now

    I suppose the moral of this thread is to buy what you like based on whatever you think and GPU manufacturers are all bad because of their secrecy..

    maybe the secrecy is the problem and not Xorg devs or communities

  10. #180
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    how can one kill that which does not live?

    Quote Originally Posted by RealNC View Post
    Oh common. This isn't "over dramatic". I'm just a user who expressed his frustration on a public forum meant for discussions around Linux and graphics hardware. I did nothing wrong. Take it for what it is, but don't go and apply the "overly dramatic" label on it.


    Of course Gentoo is exotic. ATI chose not to support it. If Gentoo was mainstream, it would have been supported.
    Sarah Palin refuses my calls and ignores love letters containing my pubic hair... I find this incredibly frustrating but i suppose frustration is part of life and maybe venting my frustrations on a public forum serves no purpose other than an anti-advertisement...

    ...and gentoo is definitely mainstream, its 10 years old and the gentoo community has arguably done more to further development of FLOSS than any other community. ATI may not even recognize gentoo exists but fglrx works fine on it as does the radeon driver and i don't have power or heat issues ..maybe because the fan isn't clogged with pubic hair

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