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Thread: Goodbye ATI

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by crazycheese View Post
    Linux fanboys have nothing to do with it. You sure mean opensource purists.
    While opensource IS good, I personally have no problem with closed source as long as it fills ALL of above:
    [x] supported (incl. bugs and security)
    [x] known not to have malware or spyware
    [x] does not impose or represent itself as a standard protocol
    [x] has free alternative (no matter with what feature difference)

    For example, if I use inkscape and other guy coreldraw, and if we can both exchange SVGs - I have no problem with coreldraw.
    the world goes the other way around... its closed source because they don't want fix security holes because they think closed source is the biggest weapon against the knowledge about security holes in the software.

    also there is no closed source software without spy-ware!

    and closed source comes always with closed protocols.

    and closed source always tent to destroy free alternatives.

    in the end you on the side of open-source or you are lost.

  2. #62
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    I only used skype as example of apps that only work with xv. Maybe you find better examples. But to say fglrx works with Debian testing is just wrong as using xv will crash the xserver. Nobody can accept this kind of support.

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qaridarium View Post
    the world goes the other way around... its closed source because they don't want fix security holes because they think closed source is the biggest weapon against the knowledge about security holes in the software.

    also there is no closed source software without spy-ware!

    and closed source comes always with closed protocols.

    and closed source always tent to destroy free alternatives.

    in the end you on the side of open-source or you are lost.
    Two examples where it does not apply: ntfs driver for mac (from tuxera) and infamous urban terror game. Supported, no holes, no spyware, no closed protocols, no intention to destroy free alternatives.

    But there IS software which falls upon your criteria - if opensource amd driver would be supported and work for new and old cards like you would expect from a driver to do, many would not use nvidia.

    Is there a possibility within xorg project to create fund generation for radeon driver? I see it is labeled as unwanted and undesired by AMD, but whats alternative? Start our own company ?

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kano View Post
    I only used skype as example of apps that only work with xv. Maybe you find better examples. But to say fglrx works with Debian testing is just wrong as using xv will crash the xserver. Nobody can accept this kind of support.
    When I used fglrx in 2008, it crashed the kernel when switching text consoles! Compared to that - its a progress!

  5. #65
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    Welcome to the club!

    A few *many* years back I did my best to use an ATi card (actually multiple). While they worked OK, they kept crashing at strange times. After hours and hours of tinkering and xorg.conf modifications a light turned on. I said fuck it, drove to Microcenter, bought an Nvidia card and was up and running in minutes. I was back in Nvidia land. :P

    While its fun to argue the virtues of supporting OS work, testing and reporting bugs, at some point in some peoples lives all that has to take a back seat to getting actual work done. I'm not in school anymore and my time is worth some amount of $$/hour. If I want to do good in a larger community I'll not submit bug reports and suffer crap drivers, I'll donate my time and money to charities that solve other more pressing problems.

    While I do applaud AMD for releasing docs and I'm am awe of the R600/Nouveau OS driver work and the foresight of the Gallium framework, I can care only so much. I hope they both eventually support a large set of OpenGL specifications and OpenCL/CUDA, but I'll not be waiting.

    Until then I'll be running Linux/Nvidia/CUDA on my remote workstation for number crunching, OSX/Intel on my laptop for its GUI, stability and ability to sleep properly (and IOS dev), and Windows 7 in VMWare to make $$ with.

  6. #66
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    Congrats on your nvidia purchase. I'm sure you'll be pretty happy... and if you intend to watch video, yes, VDPAU is awesome and even puts DXVA to shame IMO.

    The binary driver isn't free from bugs and annoying gotchas... and they have scaled some functionality out recently, and excluded some other things (e.g., overclocking in Fermi)... but for the most part it's a win.

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by crazycheese View Post
    Two examples where it does not apply: ntfs driver for mac (from tuxera) and infamous urban terror game. Supported, no holes, no spyware, no closed protocols, no intention to destroy free alternatives.
    your writing here is just a joke! because: NTFS IS A CLOSED PROTOCOL!

    really you FAIL here! and yes NTFS is only to destroy free alternatives.

    Quote Originally Posted by crazycheese View Post
    if opensource amd driver would be supported and work for new and old cards like you would expect from a driver to do, many would not use nvidia.
    i use it in this way??? and no i give a shit about video acceleration because: i buy a faster cpu if my system is to slow for videos. power managment? i give a shit about power managment i buy passiv cooled cards and i don'T use notebooks.

    in fact you can life with the radeon driver but not with the catalyst.


    Quote Originally Posted by crazycheese View Post
    Is there a possibility within xorg project to create fund generation for radeon driver?
    I already do this on a private basis i spend money to oibaf,michael,marek there is no need for any official project. Just open your pocket and send the money to your favor dev.


    Quote Originally Posted by crazycheese View Post
    I see it is labeled as unwanted and undesired by AMD, but whats alternative? Start our own company ?
    you can send money on a private basis.

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qaridarium View Post
    your writing here is just a joke! because: NTFS IS A CLOSED PROTOCOL!
    And tuxera is going to destroy ... closed protocol? There is danger only if closed source implementation introduces OWN standard and becomes WIDESPREAD. Because no alternative can exist, if communication path is proprietary and there is no chance to ditch it out.

    Quote Originally Posted by Qaridarium View Post
    i use it in this way??? and no i give a shit about video acceleration because: i buy a faster cpu if my system is to slow for videos. power managment? i give a shit about power managment i buy passiv cooled cards and i don'T use notebooks.

    in fact you can life with the radeon driver but not with the catalyst.
    You can do that, or you can push manufacturer into producing something efficient instead.
    You can buy 6970 to achieve speeds that of 6550, which means your software is bottlenecking like no tomorrow. Manufacturers are responsible for software - they are. First manufacturer who gets job done gets money. First who does that in opensource gets 9 out of 10 preference.

    Quote Originally Posted by Qaridarium View Post
    I already do this on a private basis i spend money to oibaf,michael,marek there is no need for any official project. Just open your pocket and send the money to your favor dev.
    ...
    you can send money on a private basis.
    You surpise me sometimes. Are you going to say you want to finance whole radeon project from private pocket money? Or you apply as new xorg radeon financial manager - so for every AMD card I buy or recommend, I tell people to route 1/10 of cost to your bank so that you can distribute?
    Because AMD 8itches the whole time - there is not enought manpower, yet the manpower is ONLY limited by financial situation. There ARE people who would pay for opendrivers, I KNOW it. As long as money does not disappear. It wonders me people donate 3k$ on BS distros like Sabayon just for 1/3 of them to sit on fglrx.

    So where is official Xorg Radeon compaign, Q.? Or should we sit still wait for AMD "All-in-Wonder"?

  9. #69
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    I really don't get you guys sometimes.
    RealNC: I can really feel with you. I used NVidia until last summer when I bought my new PC. I thought "This time I'm going to buy AMD. They support open source driver development".
    Open source drivers my ***. When I pay a lot of money for a product, I want it to work.
    The OSS drivers from AMD are mostly unusable (using Oibafs PPA for latest MESA). Until now I was not able to run Oil rush or any other Ungine-based software with the radeon driver (usually resulted in X crashes).
    So I used fglrx, which is faster, but sucks in every other way (buggy installations, bugs everywhere, also X crashes. For a while I always had some artifacts on the screen after boot and always had to restart X twice until it worked, etc).
    AMD has some nice ideas, but it's just so buggy (and OpenGL drivers are crap, compared to NVidia. AMD works much better with DirectX on Windows).
    Now just as you, RealNC, I also ordered a new Nvidia card which will arrive in 1-2 days (GTX 570). Can't wait for it...

    And about Intel: Compared to the radeon driver, this worked _really_ good. Even Oil Rush worked with it. Never had crashes, good Power Management, etc.
    It works perfectly with my Sandy Bridge machine (Now using Intel until I get my new NVidia, because radeon/fglrx is just pain).
    Also I'm very happy with my intel based netbook. It's not fast, but it works just perfectly and stable.

    I can't wait for the day when Intel releases a fast GPU (maybe Ivy + 1?).
    As soon as they do, I will probably never buy something else again...

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by crazycheese View Post
    And tuxera is going to destroy ... closed protocol?
    you don't get it... they support a closed protocol to destroy real free alternatives.

    there is nothing good about NTFS. really nothing.

    Quote Originally Posted by crazycheese View Post
    You surpise me sometimes. Are you going to say you want to finance whole radeon project from private pocket money?
    tell me : why not?

    you don't need a company like microsoft to manage your money.

    just read the phoronix forum and if a dev do something useful just ask for the paypal email address oder bank account number to make a donation.

    Quote Originally Posted by crazycheese View Post
    Or you apply as new xorg radeon financial manager - so for every AMD card I buy or recommend, I tell people to route 1/10 of cost to your bank so that you can distribute?
    just ask yourself : " is this right or is this wrong" if you chose the answer : "This is right" then you can start sending money
    Quote Originally Posted by crazycheese View Post
    There ARE people who would pay for opendrivers, I KNOW it.
    i'm one of them

    Quote Originally Posted by crazycheese View Post
    So where is official Xorg Radeon compaign, Q.?
    sure (ironic) they need better propaganda maybe they should watch more Adolf Hitler speeches-(ironic off)

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