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Thread: NVIDIA Releases 295.20 Linux Drivers

  1. #31
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    Why would Nvidia use KMS, when they have their own modesetting in the kernel (well, in their kernel module)? They don't use DRI or AIGLX or EXA either, and yet no one is harping on them for that. But when it comes to modesetting, there's screaming for KMS.

    If it's a high-res console you want, then say so. But KMS is not the one true holy way to achieve that. I don't think there's anything preventing Nvidia from implementing a fbcon driver on top of their modesetting, a "nvidiablobfb" if you will. Well, except incentive. If there is a technical reason I don't know about preventing Nvidia from creating that, please tell.


    About Wayland, ninez covered that. Nvidia isn't "refusing" anything, there's just no incentive yet to support it. It's API isn't even finalized yet AFAIK, there'll be changes still until 1.0 is released.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by ninez View Post
    Nouveau is SLOW and is a reverse-engineered, half-functioning driver...
    Yes but it has fast VT switching and graphical kernel panics, so clearly it's superior.

    I mean why are people using graphics drivers for performance and quality 3D rendering or silly things like video decoding?

    Don't people know that you're supposed to buy $300 Fermi cards for smooth Plymouth transitions?

    The day Linus boots all these proprietary video drivers is the day that Linux is going to truly flourish -- and I'm not just picking on nvidia here, but I mean Samsung, Qualcomm, TI and all those other profit-focused clowns who are doing nothing more than rapidly advancing the technology age while providing large returns for investors and mass-employing people worldwide, all while making Linux as common-place as bar soap with their bass-ackwards, proprietary, closed, blobberific graphics drivers.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by asdx View Post
    What about the half-assed XRandR support in the blob? I guess that's experimental too that they can't support it?
    They're waiting on RandR 1.4.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by asdx View Post
    What about the half-assed XRandR support in the blob? I guess that's experimental too that they cannot support it?

    Proprietary drivers suck, they always have and always will, the only thing they do well is the 3D performance thing, everything else they do it in a half-assed because the only thing they care is their enterprise customers, not your desktops.

    Ignoring this fact won't make your blob be any better.
    and;

    Quote Originally Posted by asdx View Post
    You're a moron.
    Yes, you may have changed that, but it showed up in my inbox and...

    Quote Originally Posted by johnc View Post
    They're waiting on RandR 1.4.
    Hmmm, who's the fucking moron?!?!?! -> The one who claims others are moronic, but doesn't even know why that support isn't there yet (obviously this is you), or the one's that are well-informed on this issue? (of course, this is rhetorical. way to make yourself, look really stupid, yet again...)

    Furthermore, you didn't bother to address ANY of what i actually wrote, but instead introduced an unrelated issue - completely side-stepping the issue, because in reality - you have jackshit to say about any of that stuff. As at this point, it isn't logical for Nvidia to support Wayland, there is no incentive... You comes off as a Stallmann-fanboy dipshit. I'm just glad developers have a little more snese, than people like yourself, otherwise Linux would have never got off the ground, and would be dead in the water.

    What is really funny, is that while you complain about the blob sucking at everything, i've never really had major issues, and that's after using them, both at home and at Work FOR YEARS ~ Nouveau is a complete waste of my time. Radeon isn't bad for an OSS GFX driver, but i tend to avoid AMD cards. Nvidia has always worked much nicer for me.

    Oh and as far as playing games ~ i don't play games. But i do require proper 3d acceleration for lots other types of applications. But hey, you can continue to be a short-sided dipshit with a very narrow scope on why someone might like to have proper 3d acceleration.

    Lastly, Nvidia SHOULD care more about it's enterprise customers, than my Desktop. They probably make a lot more money in that arena. But then again, Nvidia has worked great on my desktop FOR YEARS. Stop whining like a little bitch ~ GET OVER IT!

    cheerz
    Last edited by ninez; 02-28-2012 at 11:32 AM.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by asdx View Post
    There will be a point in time when the open source drivers will reach a point of performance that is close to the blob's performance. When that happens we will talk again.
    Yes... when the nouveau driver is as good or better than nvidia's proprietary driver, then we can talk again. Of course when it's at that stage we could all just use the nouveau driver and there would be nothing to argue about.

    But I don't see how this is supporting your argument that the binary driver is a turd that should be banned from Linux and the OSS version is so superior.

    So far you've listed pretty insignificant complaints, like it doesn't do KMS (it does) or doesn't have RandR support.

    drivers that actually work for more than 3D performance.

    But I guess if you play games the whole day that's the only thing you care? You're a moron.
    Yeah I think 3D performance on Linux goes beyond playing games, at least in the enterprise. But it's not just about playing games. How about for people who are building HTPCs and are (quite naturally) preferring Linux for their OS? Nvidia customers are going to need the proprietary driver for video decoding. I guess you think that isn't a real advantage.

    Or how about power-saving features so temps and fan speeds are kept under control? I guess that's not a real-life difference maker either.

    So basically it all comes down to fast VT switching and mythical Wayland support for you. Cool. But I don't get why you're so fed up that the rest of the world is actually interested in more important stuff.

    What you're proposing is to essentially remove from the Linux ecosystem features and performance that are absolute essentials in both the consumer and enterprise markets. Sounds like a strategy full of win.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by asdx View Post
    OK I won't continue arguing with you all day but with this kind of attitude you only prove my points with the blob are true. Also, if you have to resort to insults and if you can't discuss like an adult then I guess I was right.
    No, it doesn't (prove your points to be true). that isn't a valid argument to support your point of view. it is an excuse, and you're just opting out of providing REAL arguments to support your position. (at the VERY best) && It wonderfully showcases that you think it's okay for you to insult people - but don't like when people use harsh language with you, in reply. It probably also shows that i have a short-fuse, which is true

    Also, Let me be quite clear -> you are complete HYPOCRITE! ie; you had insulted my 3 times, before you got hostility directed at you. 1st you called me a moron, then you concluded(assumed) that i sit on my lazy ass playing video games all day long, and then called me a moron, again. So you can pretty much either A). stop whining, and shut your mouth or B). expect people to treat you with no respect, when that is how you treat them or C). move on.

    Quote Originally Posted by asdx View Post
    I hope the FOSS community will work hard enough to make the nouveau driver a great driver so we can replace the blob. The same way we did it with forcedeth.

    I also hope that Linux developers will break the blob very badly to the point of no recover, hopefully Wayland will do this.
    This is a good point. Lots of us would like all of our drivers to be opensource, it makes development(and debugging) easier. I agree. Like Johnc pointed out, if and when Nouveau is upto the job, then great. -> We can all have mass parades in the streets, and declare that day to be a universal holiday, worldwide... But for now, I have to be a little more pragmatic about it, because more often than not, Nouveau just isn't doable for me and Nvidia does a good job, overall.

    As far as completely breaking the drivers, it's fairly unlikely to happen ~ being as much of the linux kernel is developed by paid developers in *enterprise*. It could happen i suppose, but IMO i don't really see that happening, here. Especially, since the blob is soooo useful, in comparison to the alternative.

    cheerz

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by asdx View Post
    I also hope that Linux developers will break the blob very badly to the point of no recover, hopefully Wayland will do this.
    I'm not much for paranoia, but I actually do get a little "vibe" that one of the implicit goals of Wayland is to lock out binary drivers. I know that not all Wayland devs have that kind of intention, but I have my suspicion about some of its strongest proponents. I wouldn't even be surprised if there is a lot of Intel politics behind Wayland.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by asdx View Post
    OK I apologize if I have offended you, I shouldn't have called you a moron, I don't think you are.

    You have offended me by calling my idea "retarded" and short-sighted too, the idea of getting rid of blobs, and while you might have your reasons behind this, I don't think it's ok also to call others "retarded" just because their opinions are different than yours.
    To be clear, i NEVER called *you* personally, retarded. I called something that you *said* and *did* retarded;

    You are always trolling on these kinds of threads, saying stupid shit like proprietary drivers should be banned (which is retarded)
    there is a big difference. Walking into an Nvidia Proprietary driver thread and getting all political, going on about how all the blobs should be removed/banned/broken - *is* trolling and *not a very smart thing to do* (if retarded, bothers you, here is my compromise)...and i never said that getting rid of the blobs was retarded, BUT for now (and the foreseeable future) it is a BAD idea, and it is very short-sided...and to be very clear, saying someone is being short-sided is NOT an insult, it just means they aren't looking at the full-scope of the issues. ~ I'm sorry that you find that offensive (but it's not, and not intended to be, either). As i said before, it's better to be a little more pragmatic about it. Those drivers have a lot of value for not only enterprise, but linux users of all shapes and sizes.

    Quote Originally Posted by asdx View Post
    I don't think it's retarded or short-sighted to dream or want to use a Linux system without blobs that is as capable or more than using it with blobs.

    Anyway, let's not insult each other just because our opinions are different.
    I don't think that is retarded or short-sided, either. Nor did i say that. But if you look back at what you've been *actually* writing, before this ~ that really isn't what you've said. It's fine to have your perspective - but don't come to a thread like this an troll, name-call and bitch when people don't agree with you. (you should expect backlash, when you do this kind of stuff).

    take care
    Last edited by ninez; 02-28-2012 at 02:27 PM.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnc View Post
    I'm not much for paranoia, but I actually do get a little "vibe" that one of the implicit goals of Wayland is to lock out binary drivers. I know that not all Wayland devs have that kind of intention, but I have my suspicion about some of its strongest proponents. I wouldn't even be surprised if there is a lot of Intel politics behind Wayland.
    That very well could be true. Intel does want to be a more prominent player, in some of these areas and are making decent progress and good choices. But i still don't think this will stop AMD or Nvidia from running wayland.

    i guess only time will tell.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnc View Post
    They're waiting on RandR 1.4.
    I'll believe that when I see it. NVidia has made too many claims about xrandr support over the years.

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