Mephistopheles: Not All Linux Games Sell Well

[Larian]

@all: Did you read my NOTE ? The reason I replied that way because I am sick and tired of gamers treating developers, especially small indies, like dirt. And I wanted for good people to come out and acknowledge that trolls dominate Linux forums. This is not the first time we get trolled at. This is as simple as that. Ban trolls, delete their posts, etc. Combat them.

It would be balanced if troll were conter posted by good users. But that's not the case and that's why I refuse not to say something to wake everyone up.

We have 2 games in the development. Both use engine that runs natively on Linux. 2 big games. That's a long cycle. So we are going to be on Linux for at least 6 - 8 years. What happens after is unknown. We all can die. So, please, think rationally before you start throwing stuff like "meh, we won't buy your games because you won't support linux in 10 years."

Peace \o/

I do not believe that censorship will solve your problem - however it will definitely hide it. Worse, it will allow problems you otherwise would have seen to go unnoticed when, not if, someone mistakes constructive criticism for trolling. It's hard to have your work derided, but the head-in-the-sand response to feedback is probably not the way to go. But as always, this is your decision.

I saw your note, yes. But I believe the reasoning behind it to be flawed. Personally I can't stand to be surrounded by yes-men and people who tell me that my product is great. I want people who are going to tell me that feature X is crap and Y needs to be changed because it sucks. It's nice to get some recognition for my work, sure. But without taking the bad along with the good, the good becomes worthless. I think it's easy to forget that, and I need to be reminded of it from time to time as well. If you allow trolls to run riot and don't USE THE MOTHERFUCKERS AND MAKE THEM WORK FOR YOU, then you're just adding to the bottom line of the local liquor stores. Trust me, trolls are stupid ... not a lot of intellectual wattage there. You beat the trolls by making them eat their hat, not using SOPA tactics to shut them up - because in the end this just hurts your product.

Regarding bad treatment at the hands of the vocal minority, how much worse is the treatment of the silent majority who doesn't buy your game and costs you money because they couldn't connect with your product? People aren't saying "we won't buy your game because you won't support Linux in 10 years", they're saying the game does not yet look enticing.

Let's be honest for a moment - you're looking for investors in your company. And if you want people to invest, you have to pitch something to them that makes them want to invest. Thus far, people are walking away with their money not because they're evil trolls who live to break the hearts of young game developers everywhere, but because they're not connecting with your product. I imagine it would be insanely difficult to show an alpha build of anything to amateur venture capitalists (which is in effect what you want your audience to be), and get a positive response. I don't envy your position.

Conversely, I'm kind of excited about Steel Storm 2. Comparatively there has been a dearth of screenshots and information about that game, but if you asked me right now which of your upcoming games I'd buy if I had to choose just one, I'd say SS2 all the way. Why? Well, SS2 is teased. I'm getting tiny nuggets of information and filling in the rest in my head. I haven't seen it move, and have only a fuzzy outline of how the game will play. But I was able to connect with it. That's what makes the difference.

I've gone on at length, and you're probably sick of reading what I've got to say, so I'll close for now. Just stick with it and allow us to help you. Don't shut down when you see negative feedback, because that's the most (and possibly only), useful kind.

Warm Regards,
Larian

[motorsep]

I do accept constructive criticism. I haven't seen any here. I agree that ToM doesn't show too much of excitement yet to some people, yet other people have seen the fun aspect in it. I suppose it depends on genre preference. Maybe video reveals too much and screenshots would do better marketing than video. I don't know, I am not a marketing / PR guru

I am excited about SS2 as well I have total control over the game, so that particular aspect makes it very interesting to develop. Plus it will be modding friendly.

Thanks for the advice on trolls.

[schmidtbag]

I do accept constructive criticism. I haven't seen any here. I agree that ToM doesn't show too much of excitement yet to some people, yet other people have seen the fun aspect in it. I suppose it depends on genre preference. Maybe video reveals too much and screenshots would do better marketing than video. I don't know, I am not a marketing / PR guru

I am excited about SS2 as well I have total control over the game, so that particular aspect makes it very interesting to develop. Plus it will be modding friendly.

Thanks for the advice on trolls.

there has been some constructive criticism here. i admit my posts may have been a bit blunt (but not intentionally mean) but i intend you to do well and i want to see progress. as for those who are blatantly trolls, yes, they're insulting and you don't want to take their opinions too seriously, but there can often be some truth behind them (albiet, very exaggerated). so basically, listen to people like the trolls but only take them half as seriously as you would/should to people who go out of their way to tell you how to be successful and confident.

i would have to agree 110% with everything larian has said. disregarding anything he said would be arrogant or idiotic.

[ChrisXY]

I know people behind Xonotic personally. They told many times to me that they wish they had graphics in Xonotic at ToM's level. So with all fairness, I won't see much competition on Linux in the same category of indie games (I am not counting Quake 4, Prey, etc. as these are in the different "weight" category). Grimlock looks better than ToM, but I am not sure it will be released on Linux or not (plus you don't get to run around in Grimlock, it's more of a turn-base dungeon crawler).

I have watched the video again and I have to say that my perception of the video mislead me: The graphics itself look rather good. However my impression is that of old, crappy graphics.

I have two theories:
1. You try to recreate the style of that old games too hard.
2. I personally associate the style of the game with old crappy graphics and that overrides an objective rating of the graphics quality.
Perhaps it's the level design that is too "empty"... It's basically a big flat plane.. Of course it's very early, but that's just what goes through my head when watching the video.

[Qaridarium]

I haven't seen any here.

i do make suggestions in the past... for example a throwing sword,

i make a picture for you to imagine it:

[AnonymousCoward]

i do make suggestions in the past... for example a throwing sword,

Would that work similar to Hammerfight, where you have to swirl your mouse around all the time?

[daemon_kia]

Here is some information on modding and scripting in Tomes of Mephistopheles for anyone interested: http://www.kot-in-action.com/content/?p=350

[Qaridarium]

Would that work similar to Hammerfight, where you have to swirl your mouse around all the time?

first of all you can use middle-click or left+right click in the same time.

but yes you also can ad an ultimate 360grad all side around attack by swirl your mouse around.

the sword need to be much cooler

i also vote for magic colorfull bottle Liquids for your sword with the Liquid on your sword it becomes magic effects

also we really need a suicide mode an magic powder to make suicide and reborn in an ultimate light worrier force an enemy to be the new host of your soul.

suicide should be very cool in this game.

[curaga]

I find it very sad that honest feedback is dismissed as trolling.

[Qaridarium]

I find it very sad that honest feedback is dismissed as trolling.

trolling = freedback you don't like...