OpenBSD 5.1 Released

[kraftman]

Most other distributions are worse.

1. I didn't look size of packages.

2. I like that.

3. Did you look at https://gist.github.com/1091803 and https://gist.github.com/665971 ?

4. I don't like Gentoo. Too much work with LFS.

I think you shouldn't judge something just because you don't like it. Your likeness or hatred towards something has no impact on reality. That's why Gentoo remains simple, not bloated distribution.

[LightBit]

It sounds obvious to me it doesn't overcommit available memory - otherwise this statement will be false, don't you think?

No, I don't think so.

It can be more feature rich which isn't equal to being bloated. There are for sure differences between GNU's cat, echo and not GNU equivalents.

Non-standard functions in utilities are bloat, since portable scripts should not depend on them. Why two parameters for same thing like "-A" and "--show-all"?
cat utility is not IDE.

[LightBit]

I think you shouldn't judge something just because you don't like it. Your likeness or hatred towards something has no impact on reality. That's why Gentoo remains simple, not bloated distribution.

My likeness or hatred towards something comes from reality.
Portage is written in Python, this makes it bloated and less reliable (if something is wrong with Python). Also compiling X11 or Firefox ... is not really interesting.

[curaga]

Pointing at GNU or the BSDs to say that linux userland is bloated is, well, wrong target. It means that those GNU/BSD utils are.

Everyone's entirely free to use busybox, toybox, plan9 utils, or asmutils, and I bet you can find a distro that defaults to each of those.

[LightBit]

Pointing at GNU or the BSDs to say that linux userland is bloated is, well, wrong target. It means that those GNU/BSD utils are.

Everyone's entirely free to use busybox, toybox, plan9 utils, or asmutils, and I bet you can find a distro that defaults to each of those.

I said userland, because glibc is also bloated not just utils.
I would be very interested to see Linux distribution without GNU which would be usable as desktop os (not only for firewalls ...).

[brad0]

I think he meant OpenBSD ships with much older versions.

They're not *much* old and he's doing an apples to oranges comparison. Doesn't count.

[curaga]

I said userland, because glibc is also bloated not just utils.
I would be very interested to see Linux distribution without GNU which would be usable as desktop os (not only for firewalls ...).

http://distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=alpine

Alpine is uclibc/busybox, and can be used as a desktop IIRC. Tiny Core is glibc+busybox. Aboriginal is uclibc+bb, but doesn't do X IIRC. Gentoo can be configured like that. Etc.


I do wonder why, if your target is a desktop, the bloat of glibc and GNU utils even registers; surely the bloat of firefox exceeds their combined bloat 1000-fold? Even the bloat of Xorg is a lot when compared to tinyX, but you still want the acceleration for desktop use.

[fuzz]

My likeness or hatred towards something comes from reality.
Portage is written in Python, this makes it bloated and less reliable (if something is wrong with Python). Also compiling X11 or Firefox ... is not really interesting.

All this means is you don't know anything about Gentoo.

[kraftman]

No, I don't think so.

It was a rhetoric question. It's exactly like I said.

Non-standard functions in utilities are bloat, since portable scripts should not depend on them. Why two parameters for same thing like "-A" and "--show-all"?
cat utility is not IDE.

Who decides what's standard and not? I prefer GNU way.

[kraftman]

My likeness or hatred towards something comes from reality.
Portage is written in Python, this makes it bloated and less reliable (if something is wrong with Python). Also compiling X11 or Firefox ... is not really interesting.

The example with Gentoo was about ability to tune your system how you like. There were also another example - LFS and there's nothing that can beat it. Arch Linux is somehow similar to Gentoo, but you don't have to compile anything.