Unity 2D To Go Away In Ubuntu 12.10

[Massa]

Good, it's time to move forward and embrace the future. When is Unity going to be working 100% with Wayland?

When both nVidia and ATI support it with their proprietary drivers, so maybe in 4 years?

[daniels]

How about multimonitor setups?
I have encountered a 2048x2048 pixel limit on my i945 powered laptop for 3d acceleration, which forced me to use unity 2d when having a second monitor attached. So this probably needs to get "fixed" - or worked around. And as someone mentioned before: the top panel does not always behave nicely when using wine in fullscreen mode... (same thing for special keys and shortcuts in games)

It's a hardware limitation that's very hard to work around in software, and made even harder by X's design. Even if you did work around it you'd end up having to do all your rendering twice if you had a window that extended across outputs, so performance would be even worse than usual with 945 -- which is very bad as IIRC it doesn't have any hardware vertex shaders.

I have absolutely no idea where the suggestion that Canonical deliberately crippled it came from.

[asdx]

When both nVidia and ATI support it with their proprietary drivers, so maybe in 4 years?

Yeah like that is going to happen, considering that nvidia just added xrandr support to their proprietary driver last week, after how many years of being requested? 10, 20 years? Don't make me laugh please.

What makes you think that they will support Wayland in 4 years?

We need to add support for Wayland to everything NOW and FORCE nvidia to support Wayland, otherwise they will just be lazy about it and won't give a shit about Wayland or anything you come up with.

Deprecate X NOW and force nvidia to support Wayland or get them out of business. Plain and simple.

And for the people or developers being afraid to do this: Grow the fuck up already and quit being a fucking sissy.

[PsynoKhi0]

This makes me sad. I'm actually quite liking 12.04 on my wife's desktop after some minor tweaks. One of which was switching to unity-2d. 3D has some pretty annoying bugs with some opengl applications (wine in some instances, for one).

I second that, running it on fairly old laptop, and it's a very clean DE, gets the job done. The onboard Radeon X1100 is sluggish with the 3D version (tried most of the Compiz Config tweaks I could find, disabling vsync, upping the refresh rate, disabling Dash blur...)
Good thing it's a five years support... Worst case scenario I'm back to Xubuntu.

[droidhacker]

This is not a problem with the tech itself, it is a problem with the Unity/Gnome/KDE implementation of the tech. OSX is a good example of a good (yet subdued) implementation of 3D compositing.


I disagree that they are worthless. A quality reference software stack is a good thing, even if only used as a baseline in which hardware stacks are compared. To say that a product is not performant, while still in it's infancy, is probably short sighted. CPUs will get faster, the software will get faster, and may become useful given time to grow.


I completely agree. With the exception of some of the corner cases that you outlined, this is dead-on. I think of LLVMPIPE as a potential VESA alternative, and not a replacement for 3D drivers. It may have additional uses once linux has a multi-GPU framework in place, and performance is improved.

F

We're sort-of agreeing here. The problem is that they're using the software specifically for that reason that you say is not appropriate. In context, what I said is that these are useless **for this purpose**. I agree that a software reference driver is definitely a valuable thing.

And yeah, mac10 does compositing, but doesn't accomplish anything useful with it. Its still just eye candy over a very frustrating UI. I wish people would focus on making the UI **GOOD** instead of just "pretty". Sometimes GOOD is also UGLY.

[Gusar]

We need to add support for Wayland to everything NOW and FORCE nvidia to support Wayland, otherwise they will just be lazy about it and won't give a shit about Wayland or anything you come up with.

Deprecate X NOW and force nvidia to support Wayland or get them out of business. Plain and simple.

And for the people or developers being afraid to do this: Grow the fuck up already and quit being a fucking sissy.

Dude! What did I tell you about your demands and being a spoiled kid? You've just now proven to be exactly that, a spoiled kid, and nothing more.

Deprecating X has nothing to do with anyone needing to grow the fuck up. If you think it's so easy, then go do just that, you "grow the fuck up" and deprecate X from your machine, see how far you'll get.

[asdx]

Dude! What did I tell you about your demands and being a spoiled kid? You've just now proven to be exactly that, a spoiled kid, and nothing more.

Deprecating X has nothing to do with anyone needing to grow the fuck up. If you think it's so easy, then go do just that, you "grow the fuck up" and deprecate X from your machine, see how far you'll get.

I'd rather be spoiled than a conformist and douchebag like yourself.

And I should have said "man the fuck up" because that's what developers need to do but they don't because they are too afraid of doing anything that will piss off the great nvidia corporation. Talk about being a fucking coward and incompetent.

So yeah, let's sit and and enjoy using X11 for another 50 years on our computers. Fuck you.

[Gusar]

I'd rather be spoiled than a conformist.

Umm, there aren't just those two options, you know. And about spoiled, as a kid you can scream "I want it, I want it!" and your mommy will get it for you. But the real world doesn't work like that.

And I've used the wrong word, I should have said "man the fuck up" because that's what developers should do but they don't because they are too afraid of doing anything that will piss off nvidia.

Well, have you "manned the fuck up" yet and deprecated X from your machine? No? Why not?

In your little world, this might be about "too afraid to piss off nvidia". But in the real world, people want to, you know, *use* their machines. X makes that possible. Wayland does not. The developers are making it happen. Which makes them already way more "manned up" that you are. They're actually writing code, instead of being obnoxious on forums.

But if you think they're so incompetent, why don't you show them how it's done, write some code to make Wayland happen faster. I'm sure they'll be happy to get new contributors. Go ahead, let us see *your* competence. Prove that you can do more that just dish out colorful words, show us how much of a man you are.

[asdx]

Umm, there aren't just those two options, you know. And about spoiled, as a kid you can scream "I want it, I want it!" and your mommy will get it for you. But the real world doesn't work like that.

Well, have you "manned the fuck up" yet and deprecated X from your machine? No? Why not?

In your little world, this might be about "too afraid to piss off nvidia". But in the real world, people want to, you know, *use* their machines. X makes that possible. Wayland does not. The developers are making it happen. Which makes them already way more "manned up" that you are. They're actually writing code, instead of being obnoxious on forums.

But if you think they're so incompetent, why don't you show them how it's done, write some code to make Wayland happen faster. I'm sure they'll be happy to get new contributors. Go ahead, let us see *your* competence. Prove that you can do more that just dish out colorful words, show us how much of a man you are.

Sorry I didn't mean to insult you or the developers, I don't think they are incompetent, I think they are very competent actually.

My point is only that if we keep surrendering or waiting for NVIDIA to do something, Wayland will probably never see the light of the day and will probably end up being like another Fresco or Y-Windows. A project that tried to replace X and failed.

And we don't want that to happen or do you?

Why can't we just forget about nvidia and focus on building Wayland and make it the best it can be? Adopt it very early regardless of what nvidia or some corporation tries to mandate on the developers.

Sigh.

[russofris]

I love it when the guy with the unused Soloflex argues with the guy with the unused gym membership about which has the better workout routine.

Re: Switching to Wayland forces Nvidia to react.

I have no reason to believe that hardware vendors will react any differently to Wayland than they have previously reacted to X11. Their quickest path to market is probably to create a shim between Wayland and their in-house blob. The only difference this time around is that OSS drivers are first to market. While this settles the philosophical chicken/egg question, we still end up with chickens and eggs. To summarize, I expect we'll be in exactly the same position with Wayland in 2 years as we are with X11 today.