NVIDIA Tegra With Dedicated Quadro/GeForce?

[phoronix]

Phoronix: NVIDIA Tegra With Dedicated Quadro/GeForce?

File this as you wish, but since talking about The Biggest Problem For A Linux PC Vendor, I've heard some interesting information from a source regarding future Tegra plans. The mentioned work if it reaches the market would be extremely interesting and would be good news for Linux users...

http://www.phoronix.com/vr.php?view=MTEwMDk

[frantaylor]

Imagine the existence of a patch that removes all "GPL only" restrictions from the linux kernel

The patch itself would also be GPL

Nobody can stop the patch from being distributed

Nobody can stop anyone from assembling a distribution using this patch

Nvidia and Dell can put this together and make their own "Dellbuntu".

I love the idea of free software but damn it, it's my computer and my video card and I am the one who is loading the drivers and it is me who should get to decide what drivers I can use on my computer.

And then there are the "GPL" drivers that were written using documentation that can only be viewed after signing an NDA. Honestly I don't see how you can call this "free software", it might as well be a binary blob because even the source code is just a binary blob without that documentation. For another example I can provide the areca driver which was written by an areca engineer with access to documents that nobody else can get even with an NDA. "Free Software" hah!

And then there is the matter of drawing a distinction between devices that require firmware loaded versus those which carry their firmware internally. Hey the engineers are being clever by allowing the firmware to be upgraded but oh no, they get a bitch slap from Linus for being intelligent.

Maybe closed source code is wrong and morally repugnant but that's MY decision to make on MY computer.

I find this "GPL only" mentality to be just as narrow minded and just as stupid as Microsoft's lock in policies.

[JohnXfce]

Why all those dudes of Xorg and nuveaou and others combine their effort to actually support nvidia and amd properly without intel. So that we can have completely tearing free desktops and completely tearing free video playback with real sync to vblank. None of the drivers from nvidia or amd provide tearing free desktops and completely tearing free video playback so the whole discussion of dma buffer or other switching is completely pointless as none of those companies provide any working linux drivers whatsover. So switching between one non working shit and another non working shit is not an issue. The issue is a LACK of tearing free desktops and LACK of completely tearing free video playback and LACK of real sync to vblank in any configuration. Period.

[frantaylor]

The issue is a LACK of tearing free desktops and LACK of completely tearing free video playback

This is YOUR issue

some of us see computers as more than eye candy and video players

personally my big issue is that every linux kernel upgrade is an exciting and exhilerating experience! Will my sound card still work? Gee thanks for renumbering my network interfaces and my disk drives! I really like having to go into my monitoring apps (grrr gkrellm) and reconfiguring them because suddenly the new kernel has decided that my SSD and my RAID array have magically swapped names. Yes I know about UUIDS and partition names but tell that to the gkrellm authors.

I think about my wife and my friends and their computer experience and I wonder if they are willing and/or able to deal with this kind of stuff and I have to say NO and tell them to get a Mac.

[isigrim]

I wonder why you didn´t mention the CARMA-Development Kit. It combines a Tegra 3 with a dedicated CUDA-capable GPU (Quadro 1000M 96 CUDA Cores) already. It seems to be meant for development of supercomputing applications on ARM but basically it´s the same direction. I don´t know what interconnect they use though since i have not seen any PCIe Interface on Tegra 3 (maybe i missed it).

[frantaylor]

any modern desktop environment must be kept up to date on its security patches at all times

this means kernels etc have to be upgraded and rebooted by mere mortals with no computer experience

the amount of testing that must be done to insure success is way beyond what most software companies are willing to spend

on the desktop, linux will always be at a disadvantage because it doesn't have the resources to keep it running well at all times. laptops etc are filled with funky hardware and they are all different. a hopeless mess unless you have millions to burn on test hardware and test engineers. Apple literally has more money than god so they can afford to test test test.

what is the point behind insisting on quality desktop video? Quality video on a computer monitor? Quality sound from laptop speakers? Quality viewing experience sitting alone in my desk chair? Huh? If I want a quality video experience I go into the living room, sit on the sofa with my wife and watch the big screen and throb to the subwoofer. No tearing, no nuthin. Just quality from dedicated hardware. desktops are for development.

I also have to point out that your task is utterly hopeless unless you get the hardware vendors to sign on to your mission. Good luck getting thousands and thousands of different video cards to do your bidding without close hand-holding from the vendors. Please note that if you want a spiffy new video card and you want to get your money's worth, you are gonna have to install the vendor's binary blob. Read the phoronix benchmarks, this is even true for the Intel hardware, which runs much better with the Windows binary blob than it does with the linux open driver. Given the current development situation, that is NEVER going to change, because by the time the free software developers get a card's driver into a stable state, the card is already obsolete. The computer I own that has the least video problems is an old dell laptop with an ancient radeon chip. The machine is slow and obsolete but HEY the video works great!

android is interesting, but who even knows or cares that it's linux under there? It could be BSD and nobody would notice. Linux is not what makes android android. Android will also suffer from quality issues because of the diversity of hardware and the relative indifference of the companies involved. Most of these companies are not betting the farm on android. they have plan b and plan c so they are not too worried about swapping the OS if android fails. The lack of commitment leads to a lack of quality. We are already seeing this as hardware vendors show their indifference toward their existing customers. It's not a recipe for success.

Again remember these phones and tablets are all complex computer systems with lots and lots of IO devices, so lots and lots of drivers are loaded on the poor user's system and each of them has to work well every time. Unless something strange happens it looks like a replay of the desktop, where only the deep-pocket companies have the resources to produce a functional product every time. When Mary soccer mom can't get hold of her kids because the android upgrade failed, she's not gonna want to listen to excuses.

the server is another story entirely, all that is needed is generic OS services and linux does that quite well. Embellishing the basics ala Microsoft is just bloat.

I have no fear for the future of linux but I don't see the point in chasing the desktop platform when it's headed the way of the dodo. Sooner than you think, those silly little tablets will have the horsepower of your laptop and suddenly any computer that doesn't fit in your hand will be a dinosaur. Even after the desktops and the laptops are all gone and we have our computers in our watches and our jewelry, they will still be getting their data from linux servers.

[Plagman]

I wonder why you didn´t mention the CARMA-Development Kit. It combines a Tegra 3 with a dedicated CUDA-capable GPU (Quadro 1000M 96 CUDA Cores) already. It seems to be meant for development of supercomputing applications on ARM but basically it´s the same direction. I don´t know what interconnect they use though since i have not seen any PCIe Interface on Tegra 3 (maybe i missed it).

http://www.nvidia.com/object/carma-devkit.html

It is PCI-E based.

[Hirager]

Just one thing I want point out: sizes of developer teams for Windows and Linux. Windows has hundreds times more developers doing the coding and testing in comparison to the work force dedicated to Linux. If equal number of people were assigned to each side, the big picture would be very different. Even now, with so small resources Linux is so competitive against Windows. What we see here, is an image of the eternal battle between old and new, innovation and tradition. The topic can not be simplified to mere "do not even bother, as you will never succeed".

[AJenbo]

Coudn't they just be wanting to target Win8 since it is also for arm?

[Ansla]

This is YOUR issue

some of us see computers as more than eye candy and video players

personally my big issue is that every linux kernel upgrade is an exciting and exhilerating experience! Will my sound card still work? Gee thanks for renumbering my network interfaces and my disk drives! I really like having to go into my monitoring apps (grrr gkrellm) and reconfiguring them because suddenly the new kernel has decided that my SSD and my RAID array have magically swapped names. Yes I know about UUIDS and partition names but tell that to the gkrellm authors.

I think about my wife and my friends and their computer experience and I wonder if they are willing and/or able to deal with this kind of stuff and I have to say NO and tell them to get a Mac.

The Linux kernel can not easily solve those problems itself, that's why UDEV has took over renumbering the devices in a persistent way. All Linux distributions now use UDEV, so this problem only exists for those stuck with really old versions or that build their own system using LFS.