Linux Support Finally For Creative Sound Core3D

[uid313]

The DAC (digital-to-analog converter) on motherboard audio is often less good that on dedicated cards.

But if you use S/PDIF (digital, optical/coaxial) from the motherboard, then you should be fine.
As long as the DSP isn't retarded and does automatic down/up/re-sampling.

[texaswriter1983]

The DAC (digital-to-analog converter) on motherboard audio is often less good that on dedicated cards.

Not expressly doubting or questioning the truth of this, but can you be more specific on what problems the DAC would have. I can imagine a problem with a DAC to be easily solved; just curious on what problems people have with this.

[texaswriter1983]

The DAC (digital-to-analog converter) on motherboard audio is often less good that on dedicated cards.

Not trying explicitly to doubt you or anything, but can you be more specific on what differences would exist between a DAC on a dedicated card and a built-in card and how this would effect quality. Just was hoping for more information on this.

TIA

[uid313]

Not trying explicitly to doubt you or anything, but can you be more specific on what differences would exist between a DAC on a dedicated card and a built-in card and how this would effect quality. Just was hoping for more information on this.

Lower quality DACs have lower signal-to-noise ratio (SNR) which results in that the conversion from a digital signal to a analog signal gets poor quality.
Motherboard manufacturers often want to keep the costs down and hence pick cheap, low-quality DACs.

Another problem is that electrical interference from the motherboard and components on the motherboard interferes with the audio and results in poor quality.
This issue can be slightly mitigated if electrical interference is reduced by wiring the motherboard cleverly.

You can around the poor quality DACs on the motherboard, by feeding the data out digitally (S/PDIF) from the motherboard through a optical (TOSLINK) or coaxial connector to a high-quality external DAC.

[smitty3268]

Lower quality DACs have lower signal-to-noise ratio (SNR) which results in that the conversion from a digital signal to a analog signal gets poor quality.
Motherboard manufacturers often want to keep the costs down and hence pick cheap, low-quality DACs.

Another problem is that electrical interference from the motherboard and components on the motherboard interferes with the audio and results in poor quality.
This issue can be slightly mitigated if electrical interference is reduced by wiring the motherboard cleverly.

You can around the poor quality DACs on the motherboard, by feeding the data out digitally (S/PDIF) from the motherboard through a optical (TOSLINK) or coaxial connector to a high-quality external DAC.

This is true, but my point stands that MB sound is good enough for 99% of people. If you're one of those who think that you should get a discrete card because of these quality concerns, you qualify under the "audiophile" category of users.

[texaswriter1983]

Lower quality DACs have lower signal-to-noise ratio (SNR) which results in that the conversion from a digital signal to a analog signal gets poor quality.
Motherboard manufacturers often want to keep the costs down and hence pick cheap, low-quality DACs.

Another problem is that electrical interference from the motherboard and components on the motherboard interferes with the audio and results in poor quality.
This issue can be slightly mitigated if electrical interference is reduced by wiring the motherboard cleverly.

You can around the poor quality DACs on the motherboard, by feeding the data out digitally (S/PDIF) from the motherboard through a optical (TOSLINK) or coaxial connector to a high-quality external DAC.

Oh, for some reason I was thinking signal-to-noise applied when going from analog to digital.

[uid313]

This is true, but my point stands that MB sound is good enough for 99% of people. If you're one of those who think that you should get a discrete card because of these quality concerns, you qualify under the "audiophile" category of users.

I actually used to believe the exact same thing as you.
That integrated audio was good enough, and that anything else was really audible imperceptible anyways.

Maybe it differs from different DSPs (such as C-Media, Realtek, Creative, etc) and different motherboards, I don't know. Maybe it differs between laptop motherboards and desktop motherboards, I don't know.

But at the office we used to listen to music through a pair of speakers connected to my boss HP EliteBook laptop and I never reflected over how poor the sound was.
Then my boss came with a $400 external DAC from Cambridge Audio.
I was skeptic and thought it wouldn't make any audible perceivable difference, then he plugged it in, and the difference in audio quality wasn't marginal, it was huge! It was like day and night!
The integrated audio sounded horrible, it was just that I've never how bad it really sounded before.

I believe we were listening to SACD though, not some shitty MP3s or YouTube.

I am not saying all integrated audio is this bad, because quite frankly, I don't really know.
Perhaps other laptops sound better. Perhaps this particular laptop had really crappy audio.
Perhaps the integrated audio on desktop motherboards is better than the one laptop motherboards.
All I can say is that compared to an external DAC, the audio on the HP EliteBook is absolutely horrible.

Oh, for some reason I was thinking signal-to-noise applied when going from analog to digital.

I am no expert, but I believe that signal-to-noise applies when going from digital to analog too.

[rabit]

Creative cards have always worked great for me on Linux, and loved the supplied tools for assembling and uploading code to run on the card's DSP. That said, it seems to me though that Creative stifled innovation toward on-board processing in the soundcard space in the last 15 years and now get to pay the price for it. Intel's HDA built onto most motherboards sounds just as good when using digital out, and Microsoft has pushed game devs toward pure CPU processing for sound, so why spend another $50-$200? Well, NVIDIA designed the sound system on the original XBOX which was quite stunningly put to use in games like Halo - 100s of simultaneous voices, or 64 fully 3D spatialized if I recall, plenty of DSP power for applying effects on individual channels , Dolby AC3 encoding came completely free. The first Nforce motherboards had this same chipset, came with great low-latency ASIO drivers for pro work but Microsoft never did fully support the card for games, which was a shame. It was light years ahead of anything that Creative had out at the time.

[uid313]

Creative cards have always worked great for me on Linux, and loved the supplied tools for assembling and uploading code to run on the card's DSP.

Are you thinking about SoundFont or EAX?
Just wondering what you are talking about here.

That said, it seems to me though that Creative stifled innovation toward on-board processing in the soundcard space in the last 15 years and now get to pay the price for it. Intel's HDA built onto most motherboards sounds just as good when using digital out, and Microsoft has pushed game devs toward pure CPU processing for sound, so why spend another $50-$200?

Yeah, the CPUs are getting faster so the benefit of a on-board sound card processing gets less.
So yeah spending another $50+ doesn't make sense unless you're using analog-out in which case you want a dedicated sound card with finer DACs and operational amplifiers.
Or if you doing audio production, but then you may get some real professional audiophile cards, and not some Creative cards which are more of gamer audio cards and home audio.

Well, NVIDIA designed the sound system on the original XBOX which was quite stunningly put to use in games like Halo - 100s of simultaneous voices, or 64 fully 3D spatialized if I recall, plenty of DSP power for applying effects on individual channels , Dolby AC3 encoding came completely free. The first Nforce motherboards had this same chipset, came with great low-latency ASIO drivers for pro work but Microsoft never did fully support the card for games, which was a shame. It was light years ahead of anything that Creative had out at the time.

Interesting, I never knew this.
I only heard nForce didn't go so well, and they abadoned it.
Nvidia tried to be jerks and prevent anything except nForce to use SLI.
Also heard the nForce chipsets had lots of problems.

[crazycheese]

Interesting, I never knew this.
I only heard nForce didn't go so well, and they abadoned it.
Nvidia tried to be jerks and prevent anything except nForce to use SLI.
Also heard the nForce chipsets had lots of problems.

Still have Abit NF7-S v2 around, was using this board when trying Linux, had zero problems soever. This is nforce 2 ultra 400.