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Thread: Microsoft Hosts: GNOME & Mono Festival of Love

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by peppepz View Post
    Then you haven't tried other IDEs. As you've said yourself, Netbeans does that and is better than Visual Studio. Also try QT Creator.

    I tried the 'most known' IDEs (Eclipse, Anjuta, Netbeans, Visual Studio, ValaIDE, monodevelop) and none of them are as good as Visual Studio itself. Monodevelop comes close but it would need a WPF editor (and mono would need the WPF components).

    As for QT creator: Does it support other components? (like gtk2 or gtk3?).
    Pure bullshit. Java is much faster than Mono. Not a bit faster, but A LOT faster. In fact, it's the third fastest language after C and FORTRAN. And unlike C#, it's really cross platform.
    http://shootout.alioth.debian.org/u3...re-fastest.php
    nice try, have you ever seen real Java applications? There are two hints that you are using one: The GUI looks bad and is bad designed (I slowly get the feeling that Java developers in general have no clue on how to design a GUI), it uses far too much RAM and it's slow. (I did some 'benchmarks' myself back in the day...had to decide on which language to use a year ago: C# or Java, one of the 'biggest' tasks was to get a big XML file and get it into a database...maybe I did it wrong (I consulted some Java devs at the company I worked at during the time, they tweaked a few things which got me ~10 seconds) but the C# application did the same thing in 3/4 of the time.

    Maybe they got better in version 7 (that'd explain the result of the website). I've to take a closer look at what that 'benchmark' does and how it was implemented.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Detructor View Post
    nice try, have you ever seen real Java applications? There are two hints that you are using one: The GUI looks bad and is bad designed.
    The "No True Scotsman" stuff is REALLY LAME!

    YES, I see "real Java applications" all the time. They are used EVERY DAY to run ALL MANNER of web applications.

    "The GUI looks bad and is bad designed"

    If you think this is a property of THE LANGUAGE USED TO IMPLEMENT AN APPLICATION

    You are 100% IGNORANT!!!

    ""The GUI looks bad and is bad designed"

    I guess that would mean that iTunes and MS Word are all JAVA applications, according to YOUR theory!

    "maybe I did it wrong "

    AH YES!!! The SELF APPOINTED EXPERT who DOESN'T REALLY KNOW WHAT HE IS DOING!!!

    FEEL FREE TO COMMENT ANYWAY!
    Last edited by frantaylor; 06-05-2012 at 09:47 AM.

  3. #23
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    gnome and mono... balmer's two best friends.

    gnome, because it makes people hate linux.
    mono, because it gives ms power over linux.

    Put the two together and you have a serious problem.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Detructor View Post
    You can call Microsoft evil all you want (I don't like them either to be honest), that doesn't change two simple facts:

    1. Visual Studio is the most enhanced IDE as of today. There is nothing better. (GUI design, MSDN, ctrl + space for preview of (all) possible variables/functions/classes/namespaces [I've yet to see at least one IDE aside from VS and NetBeans that is able to do that])

    2. C# is multi-platform, easy to use and still manages to give you a nice performance boost (compared to other languages like Java (slow, big thing) or C++ (too complex for GUI applications and if you don't know exactly what you are doing you get tons of memory leaks)). Also the documentation is pretty good.
    1. I use both VS as well as Eclipse at work and in my Opinion Eclipse (for Java) is much better than VS for C#. Ctrl+Space has worked perfectly in Eclipse for ages...

    2. C# is okay as a language (much better than all that dynamically typed stuff) but I disagree that it is much faster than Java. Speed is pretty much similar there.

  5. #25
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    Mono is not faster than Sun HotSpot. It is much faster than Dalvik, and it is comparable to HotSpot. It uses about an order of magnitude less RAM than Hotspot though. And Gtk# is much more responsive by design than Swing.

    I don't know about HotSpot versus Microsoft.NET because I am not interested in non-Free frameworks.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by robpvn View Post
    Strictly speaking this is untrue. Only applications using Windows-specific stacks that are not implemented in Mono will not run. Granted, that's probably a majority,
    No, strictly speaking this is mathematically true. Mono is a limited subset of .NET. Therefore, in general, an application working in .NET will not work in Mono. In particular, however, certain applications written in .NET will work on Mono. Not that I've ever seen a .NET application that wasn't explicitly designed for Mono run on Linux.

    but this still has no bearing on the issue of why Microsoft would want to be friendly to Mono.
    Because they can say "see, everything written for Linux works on Windows too, and better". Not that I care: I only replied because your statement about "easy cross-platform compatibility" might make people believe that there is full compatibility between .NET and Mono. There isn't.

    Not a lot has changed, no, except the chance of Microsoft suing over the use of Mono getting even smaller.
    You mean that the fact the Microsoft is suing everyone and his dog over trivial patents if they use Linux makes "the chance of Microsoft suing over the use of Mono smaller"?

    Still more than Java, as we have seen.
    I don't know what you've seen, I saw that Java has a GPL reference implementation, and that every aspect of Java is standardized through the JCP. Where can I download the testsuite for C# 4.0, so I can test that my independent implementation of C# is compatible with the standard?

    Anyway Java doesn't matter in this discussion - we're talking about the argument ".NET is standardized and Microsoft promised not to sue", which is not true. "A limited subset of the 2005 version of the .NET framework is standardized and Microsoft promised not to sue if you only use it" is true.

    Honestly I don't think Java's position has been that much weakened given that Oracle lost. It has merely strengthened C#'s credibility.
    Well, I don't think most people have the resources to withstand a lawsuit against a company the size of Oracle. I'll bet most companies would probably not use Java, or license it (which is not acceptable from a free software POV), rather than taking the risk. Oracle destroyed the reputation of open source friendliness that Sun had built over years.

    That said, the credibility of something isn't affected by the credibility of something else, so I disagree with your second statement.

    I really wish we could all just live and let live on this issue.
    Why, everybody lives and lets anyone else live in the FOSS world. It's Microsoft that is continuously trying to kill free software development and Linux in particular; good luck running Mono when your bootloader only boots Microsoft-signed stuff.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by directhex View Post
    Mono is not faster than Sun HotSpot. It is much faster than Dalvik, and it is comparable to HotSpot. It uses about an order of magnitude less RAM than Hotspot though.
    If by "comparable" you mean "three times slower", then we agree.

    http://shootout.alioth.debian.org/u3...a&lang2=csharp

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by peppepz View Post
    If by "comparable" you mean "three times slower", then we agree.

    http://shootout.alioth.debian.org/u3...a&lang2=csharp
    Yeah, I do. By the same token, Python is sixty five times slower than Mono. That's "incomparable" kinds of numbers.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by peppepz View Post
    "A limited subset of the 2005 version of the .NET framework is standardized
    There's a limit to how much lying I think is reasonable.

    ECMA 335 is on its fifth edition, from December 2010, covering aspects of .NET 4.0

    ECMA 334 is on its fourth edition, from June 2006, covering aspects of .NET 3.5

  10. #30
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    Yey, Gnome! Go use it, Linux people. It's good for you. Hanging around with the right friends who always have your best interests at heart.

    Someone PLEASE kill Gnome.

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