06-11-2012, 12:16 PM
linux's success in server and embedded spaces
linux is hugely successful on servers, perhaps because it's possible to build a server to do one thing and do it well, and quite cheaply - you're only paying for the hardware and someone's time
linux is also pretty successful in embedded devices, where a skilled engineer can probably work just as well with linux as with specialist embedded OS.
in both cases, the value of the result is more than the investment in the upfront time and effort, a server might provide a revenue stream or provide service to an entire business, and an embedded device sold in the thousands or millions needs to be as cheap to make as possible.
OTOH, if you're managing a fleet of desktop computers, then microsoft provide a good suite of tools to do it. Sure, you can automate deployments in linux with puppet, chef, cfengine etc, but MS make it easy to do it with relatively unskilled technicians.
06-11-2012, 12:18 PM
Some comments in this thread are just based on disappointments with the Desktop !
Just refresh your mind that the popular Android jvm runs on top of Linux
Linux is a success. One of the first & may be the first OS used in the Internet servers.
Man says "Clound" is the futur, so Will be Linux. Just give a look to vendors, they will propose you robust distro as CentOS, Mint, Debian
06-11-2012, 12:27 PM
By the way, the most sold DSL-TV set-to-box in France runs thanks to Linux (using a stable 2.6 release kernel). I'm talking about million of units.
What's yours in your country ?
06-11-2012, 12:54 PM
The biggest problem with [GNU/]Linux today, IMHO, is exposure. And I mean too much exposure.
Bringing Linux down to the masses makes everyone want his/her own feature and focus on aspects that are totally irrelevant of GNU/Linux roots: freedom of choice. Bringing the GNU desktop to the masses implies leading the clueless user and make choices for him while GNU and Linux is all about freedom and choices.
We've come to a situation where experienced GNU/Linux users expect the best control from their system and in the meantime where as few choices as possible must remain to the clueless users... to prevent them from screwing up their computer, for instance.
I'm just fearing the trend nowadays (due to bringing more audience at all prices) is to flatten the learning curve. GNU/Linux must remain easy to use, of course but it must remain somehow exciting to learn; being able to identify, diagnose, understand and fix an issue on my own has been the best experience to me. Not requiring to learn about GNU/Linux shall make it as tasteless and pointless as any other [flat-learning-curve-where-everything-is-done-for-you] system, IMHO.
But I might just be wrong.
06-11-2012, 01:02 PM
I don't think I understand this though. You're complaining more about a particular distro (Ubuntu perhaps?) or software stack than you are GNU/Linux. You're still free to find as difficult a distribution as you'd like, or even roll your own. There are distros out there aimed at non-clueless users.
Originally Posted by VinzC
06-11-2012, 01:16 PM
This, exactly, as a platform Linux needs to have some semblance of a few good properties.
Originally Posted by mcirsta
Stability in a platform is important. < Hoping this will improve as a number of things are maturing right now.
advanced features < Very much still lacking, it does not help that hardware also changes continuously.
The worst ideas in execution I have seen is in driver and infrastructure design.
Tying drivers to specific infrastructure versions (graphics drivers to specific X.org versions) makes for a holy mess.
As experienced by many people. Developers should realize this more. Linus himself should speak up when someone makes this stupid decision to tie everything very thigh together. With constant distribution breakage as consequence.
A lot of projects don't have good names because of other meanings of the same word.
This scares average Joe away.
As a developer:
I miss stable api's.
A lot of distribution specifics that form problems.
Lack of software delivery especially considering file formats and file system.
Concerning the file system < seriously people, learn to organize things better! (Gobolinux)
06-11-2012, 01:18 PM
Flatten the learning curve is a motivator to learn about the system.
Originally Posted by VinzC
Do not EVER develop a system for the purpose of being exciting to learn!!!
06-11-2012, 01:42 PM
I indeed thought of distributions such as Ubuntu when I wrote my comment, that's right. Howeer this is not a complain rather than a general observation that I made, reading comments here and there and also from my own experience. My distribution of choice is Gentoo; (not that I wished Gentoo were the one distribution for everyone, of course) what I think is happening is that major GNU/Linux supporters (sponsors) are making the desktop more seducing for the average Joe/Jane, who need to be lead throughout. And this doesn't come without consequences.
Originally Posted by johnc
While it relies upon noble principles (have more people discover GNU/Linux and make them compare it with other systems), the roots of GNU/Linux might fade away and dissolve into the mass effect because, IMHO, most people are interested in a machine that just works. They don't care about the philosophy behind. Nor do they care about choices and freedom. Nor do they care about learning their system. They don't care about their rights being limited or not being able to fully control their system. Bringing a GNU/Linux desktop to that user base is “dangerous” to me as it might result in being tainted with values that it was once against.
These people should be educated (i.e. informed and convinced about the goods of it) prior to using our favourite system.
06-11-2012, 02:08 PM
What systems? It seems you're mixing user space drivers with micro-kernel design...
Originally Posted by Staffan
06-11-2012, 02:23 PM
Thanks for the info. Maybe Ubuntu will do something similar, but I think it will be better if they make more user friendly bug reporting tool, so issues will not be hidden like in Windows, but fixed. In XP SP3 I sometimes hit bugs and report them, but this is were MS interest ends. I also had couple of BSoD. Sometimes Catalyst is the culprit and some other time embedded sound card. In Linux X just restarted when I had a crash with Catalyst, so even with binary blob it's more stable.
Originally Posted by Alliancemd
Thanks a lot for your nice comment.
Originally Posted by johnc