openSUSE Has A Problem, Is Seeking New Direction

[smitty3268]

Software bloat is VERY well defined, so i completely disagree with you.

" Software bloat is a process whereby successive versions of a computer program include an increasing proportion of unnecessary features that are not used by end users, or generally use more system resources than necessary, while offering little or no benefit to its users. "

That's one definition, but the point is it's rather useless when it comes down to defining exactly what is wrong - it's an overarching theme, or idea, that covers a lot of different specific ideas inside it.

It seems you are saying that KDE offers too many features you don't use, and provides no additional value to you.

Ok, that's a personal opinion. It may be true for you - it's not for others. In this case, it would be more accurate to state that "for me, KDE is bloated" rather than making the generalizing statement that makes it sounds like that is true for everyone.

Some of your above list can be bi-products of software bloat (some are not, as you suggested), but don't automagically suggest bloat, by default. furthermore, i've already had to state, that i like KDE - so i don't even understand why you even wrote #8 ...

I wrote #8 because it is a common case when people claim that software is bloated. I wasn't directing that towards you in any way, just the general term of "bloat".

[prophet5]

Mmmm... Going back a bit I will have to say that my performance issue was most likely a regression or config issue. It was Kubuntu after all

To contradict my previous post about OpenSuse 12.1 being "the same", It was snappier than my Kubuntu update and usable after I disabled indexing. I got rid of it because I had no sound with games (Cold War, Doom 3 etc...) and all the usual tricks didn't work. I know many people move on from playing these old games, but I enjoy them, paid for them and want to play them when I feel like it and not have to fight with the OS to do so. So I reverted to the last distro I used that was fast and had less sound hassles (ie tricks worked), however I did prefer OS 12.1 over Kubuntu

So to bring it back to the thread topic, perhaps a set schedule is not the way to go with OpenSuse, but release "when it's ready" would be preferable to provide the most complete experience including getting sound issues with legacy software working out of the box. However an "Open Ended deadline" would be counter productive too.

[ninez]

That's one definition, but the point is it's rather useless when it comes down to defining exactly what is wrong - it's an overarching theme, or idea, that covers a lot of different specific ideas inside it.

I don't think the term 'software bloat' is supposed to define specifics....

It seems you are saying that KDE offers too many features you don't use, and provides no additional value to you.

Ok, that's a personal opinion. It may be true for you - it's not for others. In this case, it would be more accurate to state that "for me, KDE is bloated" rather than making the generalizing statement that makes it sounds like that is true for everyone.

Fair enough, and well said. KDE is too bloated for me, and i do find that it offers many things that i don't need/want. I do however, like many of it's features, style and i think the KDE developers have come up with a ton of good tech. over the years (and continue too). That said, i could substitute 'KDE' above with 'Windows' ~ which would mean windows isn't bloated, either. in fact, you could substitute any software in there and arrive to that conclusion.

So i guess (from your point of view) Software Bloat doesn't exist - because someone is using those features somewhere (even if it's a minority), thus negating any possibility of any software being considered heavy/bloated.

[Cyber Killer]

So i guess (from your point of view) Software Bloat doesn't exist - because someone is using those features somewhere (even if it's a minority), thus negating any possibility of any software being considered heavy/bloated.

Exactly my point of view also.

KDE also has one thing that no other DE has to this extent - easy configurability.

[ninez]

Exactly my point of view also.

which your entitled to, but with that kind of logic (that 'someone' might be using it), then all legacy code should be supported FOREVER on all platforms (which is terrible IMHO). No old drivers should be killed off, removed from xorg, linux kernel, etc.... MacOSX 10.7+ would still use Rosetta, etc. Plus, the reality is software bloat does exist - and has been mentioned over and over again, by programmers for years and years and years. Everyone from Bill gates to Google to Wirth, etc, etc, etc.

KDE also has one thing that no other DE has to this extent - easy configurability.

yup. point and click, and your done. Personally, i think that is one of KDE's nicest features.

[Cyber Killer]

which your entitled to, but with that kind of logic (that 'someone' might be using it), then all legacy code should be supported FOREVER on all platforms (which is terrible IMHO). No old drivers should be killed off, removed from xorg, linux kernel, etc.... MacOSX 10.7+ would still use Rosetta, etc. Plus, the reality is software bloat does exist - and has been mentioned over and over again, by programmers for years and years and years. Everyone from Bill gates to Google to Wirth, etc, etc, etc.

It's the other way around - not keeping old code, but writing new code, new stuff & features, because someone want to use them. E.g. activities in KDE - I don't see a purpose for this, but some ppl do, and it's great that it's there for them to use it.

[ninez]

It's the other way around - not keeping old code, but writing new code, new stuff & features, because someone want to use them. E.g. activities in KDE - I don't see a purpose for this, but some ppl do, and it's great that it's there for them to use it.

No its not (the other way around). My comment was about 'software bloat', not specifically KDE + Software bloat.

So i guess (from your point of view) Software Bloat doesn't exist - because someone is using those features somewhere (even if it's a minority), thus negating any possibility of any software being considered heavy/bloated.

You said you agreed with that, so you believe software bloat doesn't actually exist (as even an applicable concept).

From that logic, what i said next applies;

which your entitled to, but with that kind of logic (that 'someone' might be using it), then all legacy code should be supported FOREVER on all platforms (which is terrible IMHO). No old drivers should be killed off, removed from xorg, linux kernel, etc.... MacOSX 10.7+ would still use Rosetta, etc. Plus, the reality is software bloat does exist - and has been mentioned over and over again, by programmers for years and years and years. Everyone from Bill gates to Google to Wirth, etc, etc, etc.

if you believe there is no such thing as software bloat, then there should be no reason to deprecate code, as someone might still be using it somewhere. I actually used 'Rosetta' in MacOSX as a real world example, because not that long ago i remember some guy bitching about how Lion 10.7.x dropped support for Rosetta, and he was pissed. All i can do is laugh at people like that, because keeping Rosetta would have equated legacy / software bloat...

I'm sure you can find someone out there bitching about drivers dropped from Xorg (that like 3 people were using)...

This was on of MS Vista's problems to, trying really hard to keep backwards compatibility and being badly designed, buggy and bloated because of it.