Page 1 of 4 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 57

Thread: Fedora 18 Will Preview A New Package Manager

Hybrid View

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    14,770

    Default Fedora 18 Will Preview A New Package Manager

    Phoronix: Fedora 18 Will Preview A New Package Manager

    During today's FESCo meeting, the engineering and steering committee approved a number of new features for Fedora 18, a.k.a. the Spherical Cow...

    http://www.phoronix.com/vr.php?view=MTEyMjM

  2. #2
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    684

    Default

    Yum is fine, what they really need to replace is that god awful packagekit GUI.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    1,273

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by bwat47 View Post
    Yum is fine, what they really need to replace is that god awful packagekit GUI.
    Yes, +1 to that.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Posts
    803

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by bwat47 View Post
    Yum is fine, what they really need to replace is that god awful packagekit GUI.
    Yeah, it's a weird beast.

    But the #1 feature Fedora needs is better testing Fedora itself and treating it (more) seriously, I mean, after F17 was released I installed it the next day and that same day got like 150MB of updates. Same for F16 btw.
    It means Fedora's understanding of "final release" is one of the loosest (and lousiest) in the world.

    Yeah I know one can argue all day about any distro, but I've been willing to use Fedora since F11 and hoping that F-Next will finally be good enough - but each time fail, fail, fail and back to Ubuntu - which always works good enough.
    E.g. installing Nvidia (either kmod or akmod) made F17 not boot, or, after a clean install F17 fails to boot after installing like 170MB of updates saying on boot it's waiting for bluetooth, even though I don't got such a device (crazy).
    Again, #1 needed Fedora feature is better testing its .iso/stack/updates, if the folks from Fedora (i.e. Red Hat) can't - then ask Canonical for a guide, or whatever.
    Last edited by mark45; 06-18-2012 at 07:04 PM.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    somewhere
    Posts
    20

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mark45 View Post
    Yeah, it's a weird beast.

    But the #1 feature Fedora needs is better testing Fedora itself and treating it (more) seriously, I mean, after F17 was released I installed it the next day and that same day got like 150MB of updates. Same for F16 btw.
    It means Fedora's understanding of "final release" is one of the loosest (and lousiest) in the world.

    Yeah I know one can argue all day about any distro, but I've been willing to use Fedora since F11 and hoping that F-Next will finally be good enough - but each time fail, fail, fail and back to Ubuntu - which always works good enough.
    E.g. installing Nvidia (either kmod or akmod) made F17 not boot, or, after a clean install F17 fails to boot after installing like 170MB of updates saying on boot it's waiting for bluetooth, even though I don't got such a device (crazy).
    Again, #1 needed Fedora feature is better testing its .iso/stack/updates, if the folks from Fedora (i.e. Red Hat) can't - then ask Canonical for a guide, or whatever.

    Funny thing is that Ubuntu works awfully in my laptop whereas fedora works just fine straight out of the box, before fedora 17 I had no wireless in a fresh install which was the only downside even thought the wireless driver that comes with fedora doesn't work 100% well at least I'm able to install the broadcom drivers without the need of a ethernet cable

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    130

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mark45 View Post
    Yeah, it's a weird beast.

    But the #1 feature Fedora needs is better testing Fedora itself and treating it (more) seriously, I mean, after F17 was released I installed it the next day and that same day got like 150MB of updates. Same for F16 btw.
    It means Fedora's understanding of "final release" is one of the loosest (and lousiest) in the world.

    Yeah I know one can argue all day about any distro, but I've been willing to use Fedora since F11 and hoping that F-Next will finally be good enough - but each time fail, fail, fail and back to Ubuntu - which always works good enough.
    E.g. installing Nvidia (either kmod or akmod) made F17 not boot, or, after a clean install F17 fails to boot after installing like 170MB of updates saying on boot it's waiting for bluetooth, even though I don't got such a device (crazy).
    Again, #1 needed Fedora feature is better testing its .iso/stack/updates, if the folks from Fedora (i.e. Red Hat) can't - then ask Canonical for a guide, or whatever.
    I could be imagining this, but I've found the Fedora releases that the next RHEL will be primarily based upon were usually the most stable for me, though I only ever found one release to be horribly unstable out of the box (F7 I think?). The issue you had with kmod-nvidia sounds like the nouveau incompatibility, where you need to set a kernel param to disable nouveau modesetting and blacklist nouveau from loading. I'm surprised this isn't done automatically yet - considering I stopped using Fedora once I tried out F15 (Arch all the way for my personal laptop!) and I recall having that problem with the release I use at work (F14).

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    130

    Default

    - SELinux booleans will be renamed.
    Wait, what? I'm just starting to get used to some of them without needing to look them up. What prompted this?

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Ontario
    Posts
    144

    Default

    use 'dnf <command>' instead of 'yum <command>'.
    Oh please no. The yum command is synonymous with Redhat/Fedora. dnf is a terrible name for a common command...almost as terrible as apt-get.

  9. #9

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kamikaze View Post
    Wait, what? I'm just starting to get used to some of them without needing to look them up. What prompted this?
    https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Featu...BooleansRename

    Note that you can continue to use the old names and it will still work.

  10. #10

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mark45 View Post
    Yeah, it's a weird beast.

    But the #1 feature Fedora needs is better testing Fedora itself and treating it (more) seriously, I mean, after F17 was released I installed it the next day and that same day got like 150MB of updates. Same for F16 btw.
    It means Fedora's understanding of "final release" is one of the loosest (and lousiest) in the world.

    Again, #1 needed Fedora feature is better testing its .iso/stack/updates, if the folks from Fedora (i.e. Red Hat) can't - then ask Canonical for a guide, or whatever.
    Hi. I am the Fedora QA team leader.

    Put yourself in my shoes. It's two weeks before the release date for Fedora 1. We now need to do all this testing you advise (that's a great idea, by the way, I'll get right on that. Why didn't I think of that before? Testing!)

    So, what would you recommend we do? Well, obviously, we need to spin up some ISOs from the current package set. Well, okay, let's do that. (time passes). Okay, we have some ISOs. Let's do all that testing on them. (More time passes, say a day or two).

    Okay, now we have this handy list of bugs that we found during testing. All we need to do is get those bugs fixed, and make some more images. Let's go tell the developers about the bugs, and get them fixed! (More time passes, say four days - it's now about a week since we made the test ISOs). Whew, all those bugs are fixed. Let's build some new ISOs and make sure everything's hunky dory before we release this thing.

    *spits out pipe*

    What the deuce?! Some impertinent developers have gone and *changed things* while we were doing all our testing! How inconvenient! Now all those bugs we found are gone, but all those changes have made things break since we did the testing. How can we possibly deal with this?

    I know! Before we release Fedora 2, when it's two weeks before release, and it's time to do all that 'testing' stuff, we could tell the developers they're not allowed to change things any more. We could only let them change things to fix the bugs we find. It would be like the code was...unchangeable. Frozen in time. Ooh! That's a good word! Let's call it a "freeze".

    (more time passes)

    Well hey, that worked out pretty well. We did all that 'testing' stuff on Fedora 2, and because we didn't let the developers change things while we were doing the testing - that clever 'freeze' thing - we didn't wind up with new bugs showing up in the mean time. But those darn developers, they're never happy. 'What do you expect us to do during those two weeks?', they say. 'Just sit around and twiddle our thumbs?'

    Well, yeesh, you just can't please all the people all of the time. But let's try. For Fedora 3, what we could do is have a separate place where developers could work on things while the main place we keep all the packages we're building the release from is 'frozen'. Let's call this separate place, ooh, a 'repository'. That way the developers can be happy and keep working, but what they're doing doesn't screw with our testing and we don't get lots of changes in the images we're building! Gee, what a clever idea.

    So now it's Fedora 3 release day, and we have these well-tested images right _here_, and all these updates the developers have been working on over _here_, in this 'side repository'. We also, believe it or not, have a rather sophisticated process in place for testing these updates, and there's no reason we can't run that process while the freeze is in place. Actually, we do. So we have a big pile of updates which have been tested as updates always are, but which didn't get into the release because of this crazy 'freeze' idea we invented. So what do we do with them? We release the bloody things.

    Congratulations, you are now up to date with where the entire bleeding software industry was in, oh, 1983 or so.

    tl;dr summary: there is a perfectly good reason there are a lot of updates on the day of a Fedora release. It's because of a process that's been standard in the software industry for bleeding decades. It is not, shockingly enough, because a major distribution community backed by a billion-dollar software company is staffed entirely by drooling imbeciles. I realize it's hard to accept, but believe it or not, most of us actually know what the fuck we're doing most of the time.

    Sorry to be so sarcastic, but seriously. Yeesh.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •