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Thread: NVIDIA PR Responds To Torvalds' Harsh Words

  1. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by kotakotakota View Post
    Lenovo Thinkpad T420. It's about a year old I think.
    a year yes, your just under the wire on that.

    But this: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2008824 and 1000's of other users, wth many posts similar are gambling whether or not this or that newer model can switch it properly ?
    Linux on a new Laptop, especially a powerful one with an expen$ive Nvidia-gpu, should NOT be a gamble for new users.
    Until Nvidia provides a "proper" Optimus driver solution for Linux, this will always remain an Nvidia/Intel/WinBlowz party only. They are basically saying NO to a powerful Linux Laptop-Worstation choice for Linux users.
    .... hence, Nvidia <- fu_k you!
    A couple years ago, only a handful of these incorporated Optimess, but those days are long gone, because all the newer laptops,... will have it, whether we want it, or not.

    I actually just picked up a cheap-used Dell Precision M90 purposely (with nvidia Quadro-FX2500M) -Lol. Everthing is just there though -Linux, (or any of the *BSD's), X with 3d glx nvidia driver... all working smoothly.
    Last edited by scjet; 06-28-2012 at 01:39 AM.

  2. #152
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    Quote Originally Posted by hal2k1 View Post
    Au contraire, here is the feature matrix for the open source radeon driver:

    http://www.x.org/wiki/RadeonFeature/

    Green means "done".

    Yellow "WIP" means work-in-progress. Most of the time this means new work is required as such a feature does not exist anywhere (e.g. Video Decode {XvMC/VDPAU/VA-API} on the 3D engine, this doesn't exist anywhere, not even on Windows).

    Red "TODO" means no documentation has been provided for that feature (e.g. Video Decode {XvMC/VDPAU/VA-API} on UVD hardware).

    There is very little missing from this feature matrix because of the reason you imagined, to whit: "open source community is not fast enough to keep up with the changes that need to be done". This is for the most part simply untrue, that is NOT the reason why missing features are missing.
    ORANGE or WIP "means that someone has started on the initial implementation." This means that someone started writing code for the feature, but outcome of it is unknown. The feature with this status is unstable for production.

    YELLOW "means that it is implemented but has some known bugs." It explains it self. The feature with this has bugs which means unstable for production.

    RED "means that someone needs to write the code. The required knowledge to write the code may or may not be known. Please ask on #radeon if you want to get your feet wet on this." This means nobody has been scheduled to handle that type of feature and nobody knows if it can actually be supported for each Radeon model.

    Radeon graphics does support video hardware decode since the first Radeon model in Windows, but ATI at the time wrote it so horrible that it was unstable in Windows. AMD not providing any documentation for UVD just prove that I am right that not even AMD is willing to be completely open source to the community. This may change, but I still doubt it.

    You need to read the legend before coming here to correct me.

    There are many features that the open source Radeon driver does not support yet. It seems you do not see those features listed as TODO and this means it needs those features to be compatible with OpenGL spec or provide the features the Windows drivers includes. As it stands right now the open source Radeon driver is not ready for production systems. It is OK to use for simple 2D tasks, but for OpenGL will have a problem. Gamers or users running 3D applications should still use nVidia graphic cards to ease playing their games or using 3D applications in Linux since nVidia's close source drivers are ready for production if you like them or not.

  3. #153
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    I think there are two camps here (open and blob) which use the same language but a different dictionary. Let me explain:
    Open Good: works stable, secure, gives enough features to be perfectly usable "It just works", good integration with Linux kernel mechanisms. Perfect for production usage on the desktop. High speed desktop effects. Everything might not work in the driver, but is useable nontheless because for example video can run perfectly, without tearing, in software. There are no fancy gimmicks and uber framerates, but that's less irritating than the shortcommings of the blob (like slower boot, no KMS, less security, upgrade limiting in time, lifespan, etc.)

    Blob Good: gigantic full spectrum latest standards and protocol support, massive optimal compute power, full video acceleration, shiny graphics, gimmick support (3D bullshit and "EyeFinity" 3+ screen support, etc.

    So when we are discussing "superiority", first ask yourself superiority in WHAT.

    What's superior for me is the open definition of Good. Blobs can be better at their stuff that I couldn't give a rats ass about, because if I supstract $99 for an Apple TV and $250 from an Xbox360, from a $400 Crysis nVidia card, I'm still left with $50 spare for actually buying games and renting movies, or modding my Xbox in the case I'm not into buying anything. And even then I don't have to upgrade the console as much as I would have to upgrade my GPU. Capiche?

  4. #154
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    Quote Originally Posted by tecknurd View Post
    You need to read the legend before coming here to correct me.
    Pfft. You were wrong under any interpretation of the feature matrix. Those items which are still TODO are that way because there is not information available to wite a driver to. It is NOT because open source developers are incompetent, slow or lazy. Please get your facts straight.

    There are many features that the open source Radeon driver does not support yet.
    There are a few, yes.

    It seems you do not see those features listed as TODO and this means it needs those features to be compatible with OpenGL spec or provide the features the Windows drivers includes.
    WTF? TODO items are still TODO because there is as yet no information published (mostly due to legal concerns) on how to interface to those parts of the AMD/ATI GPUs. Hopefully when legal review is complete a way can be found to publish the programming specifications for these still TODO features.

    As it stands right now the open source Radeon driver is not ready for production systems. It is OK to use for simple 2D tasks, but for OpenGL will have a problem.
    Actually, as it stands right now, the open source Radeon driver for Linux is perfectly stable and compliant with OpenGL 3.0. I don't know where you get information from, but wherever it is they are woefully out of date. As for 2D acceleration ... that is what the Linux desktop actually uses, and the open source Radeon drivers for Linux perform better (at 2D) than the fglrx closed binary blob does.

    Gamers or users running 3D applications should still use nVidia graphic cards to ease playing their games or using 3D applications in Linux since nVidia's close source drivers are ready for production if you like them or not.
    Gamers are a tiny market, games are a trivial use of computer hardware, and they have virtually nothing to do with Linux. If you want to play games, why don't you buy a game console?
    Last edited by hal2k1; 06-28-2012 at 06:24 AM.

  5. #155
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    Default Linux user responds to nVidia's empty respons to Linus' hasr words below.

    Still haven't heared nVidia do something about their SUCKING.

    My stance regarding nVidia is therefore still:
    FUCK YOU, nFailia!

  6. #156
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    They're too busy scoring big wins in the mobile sector to worry about the relatively minuscule number of open source desktop users.

  7. #157
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    Quote Originally Posted by V!NCENT View Post
    I think there are two camps here (open and blob) which use the same language but a different dictionary. Let me explain:
    Open Good: works stable, secure, gives enough features to be perfectly usable "It just works", good integration with Linux kernel mechanisms. Perfect for production usage on the desktop. High speed desktop effects. Everything might not work in the driver, but is useable nontheless because for example video can run perfectly, without tearing, in software. There are no fancy gimmicks and uber framerates, but that's less irritating than the shortcommings of the blob (like slower boot, no KMS, less security, upgrade limiting in time, lifespan, etc.)

    Blob Good: gigantic full spectrum latest standards and protocol support, massive optimal compute power, full video acceleration, shiny graphics, gimmick support (3D bullshit and "EyeFinity" 3+ screen support, etc.

    So when we are discussing "superiority", first ask yourself superiority in WHAT.

    What's superior for me is the open definition of Good. Blobs can be better at their stuff that I couldn't give a rats ass about, because if I supstract $99 for an Apple TV and $250 from an Xbox360, from a $400 Crysis nVidia card, I'm still left with $50 spare for actually buying games and renting movies, or modding my Xbox in the case I'm not into buying anything. And even then I don't have to upgrade the console as much as I would have to upgrade my GPU. Capiche?

    ok sure, different strokes for different folks, but Optimess has killed the "blob" as a viable means of using a Linux powered Laptop-workstation, simply thanks to Optimus only working on M$.
    And that is, and will always be, "WRONG", and Nvidia has done squat about it -again, stfu<-Nvidia !
    whats wrong with having Linux "3D bullshit"-cad,..., capability if you need it on your new (Linux) Laptop ???
    Thats what I want.
    However, as your "rats ass" pointed out, not everybody needs it. So what. It doesn't matter, Nvidia should make Optimus work for Linux as it does for WinBlowz. The power is there if you need it, 'cause we've dam well paid for the hardware ! geeezus.
    If a Linux programmer, or whoever just needs VESA/Open on there laptop, well then whoop-de-doooo, thats fine too ?
    But for gawd sakes Nvidia, atleast provide the ability(proper-Linux-Optimus-switching-driver) on my very expensive Nvidai-GPU-Laptop.
    If not?, then again: F_CK YOU ! <- Nvidia, go drown in your tablets.

    Last edited by scjet; 06-28-2012 at 04:04 PM.

  8. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnc View Post
    They're too busy scoring big wins in the mobile sector to worry about the relatively minuscule number of open source desktop users.
    *cough* Red Flag China Linux distro *cough*; millions to billions of AMD low-end cards bought because nVidia wasn't open source.

    you might want to take that back, for your own sake of credibility

  9. #159
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    Quote Originally Posted by V!NCENT View Post
    *cough* Red Flag China Linux distro *cough*; millions to billions of AMD low-end cards bought because nVidia wasn't open source.

    you might want to take that back, for your own sake of credibility
    I'll take it back when I see a reliable source for that information, or when I see the revenue in AMD's SEC filings.

    Though why does "Red Flag China Linux" just sound so oxymoronic?

  10. #160
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    Nvidia's big wins in the mobile sector? I can remember about two Tegra3 phones so far. Unless you count tablets as mobile, which they really aren't (can't fit in your pocket).

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