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Thread: NVIDIA PR Responds To Torvalds' Harsh Words

  1. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnc View Post
    Ahhh... is that what he meant by that. In which case we're picking at scabs here... nvidia simply can not open source their driver code. It's been rehashed a zillion times why it's not possible. Now they can do something like AMD did, but we see that open source video drivers are inferior to their proprietary counterparts. So consumers who want to use their hardware to the fullest are forced into having a tainted system anyway. In practice, this is the reality we live under.

    I'm surprised that you can't pre-install hardware, linux and proprietary drivers. Every Android device is loaded up with binary drivers for all kinds of things. If it's true, it's no wonder Linux has gone nowhere on the desktop: a company can't even sell something worth using. And if enforced, Android would be dead.
    None of the nvidia's excuses to not open source their drivers are valid. Nvidia's innovations had been, are, and will always be protected by patents legal systems.
    There's even more no excuse to not bring full,at least, full API documentation to developers. (AMD)

  2. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by linux5850 View Post
    According to bridgman AMD releases all the specs needed to write open source drivers equal to their proprietary Windoze or Linux blobs. That is unless AMD didn't release all the specs they use (except the UVD hollywood crap).
    I believe him... but at the end of the day you need to find the developers competent enough to create the best drivers. Such developers aren't exactly a dime a dozen. Even after years and years and years of hacking away, the best you can expect is something that is no better than the proprietary driver anyway. So I just don't see the value in the open source model for the vast majority of consumers.

  3. #83
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    I agree with johnc, besides, it makes no sense for Nvidia to be developing two completely separate drivers when they could be saving money by making it cross-platform... Unless you all think it necessary that Nvidia open source their binary blob? Cause there is no way that they are even going to consider that, especially for the sake of such a small part of the market share. I don't think I'll ever end up using Noveau unless it actually becomes more powerful and featureful than the binary driver, and looking at fglrx vs the open source AMD drivers, I don't think that's going to happen even if Nvidia was more friendly toward open source.

  4. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnc View Post
    So I just don't see the value in the open source model for the vast majority of consumers.
    I dont agree to that, you get much faster abi changefixes, you get much faster integrated new features like newer randr-versions and kms and other stuff, you can use all the state trackers of gallium3d you save work time also here because you have to not write such statetracker-part for each hardware explizit... and you get more stable drivers, the free drivers are the most stable ones, you can preinstall them, you can port it even if the company produces the hardware goes insolvent the driver to newer x/kernel-abis...

    the advantages are big, but the most important is that it is more stable and better maintainable because of the clear decoupling and not money feature deadlines and such stuff...

    so it can even be better but yes from speed point it will not be very much faster than the blobs. but thats not the important stuff else we would all use the blobs and nobody would have a problem ^^

  5. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by kotakotakota View Post
    I agree with johnc, besides, it makes no sense for Nvidia to be developing two completely separate drivers when they could be saving money by making it cross-platform... Unless you all think it necessary that Nvidia open source their binary blob? Cause there is no way that they are even going to consider that, especially for the sake of such a small part of the market share. I don't think I'll ever end up using Noveau unless it actually becomes more powerful and featureful than the binary driver, and looking at fglrx vs the open source AMD drivers, I don't think that's going to happen even if Nvidia was more friendly toward open source.
    Of course, you are sitting on Nvidia's side for their sake of savig a couple of bucks in the short term, and trashing out the possibilty to make quality drivers.
    Beside's there's a couple of good reason for nvidia to keep supporting linux: Servers and development. yes Development:

    http://www.h-online.com/open/news/it...s-1619092.html

  6. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alex Sarmiento View Post
    Nvidia's innovations had been, are, and will always be protected by patents legal systems.
    That's not the issue. Exposing how a driver interacts with a patented portion just makes it easier for AMD to figure out what's going on and develop an extremely similar but, for the sake of patent infringement, different enough implementation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by locovaca View Post
    That's not the issue. Exposing how a driver interacts with a patented portion just makes it easier for AMD to figure out what's going on and develop an extremely similar but, for the sake of patent infringement, different enough implementation.
    That's what i would call sane competition and faster innovation

  8. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alex Sarmiento View Post
    That's what i would call sane competition and faster innovation
    What incentive do I have to pour millions of dollars into researching and implementing new technologies if company x will wait 2 months, spend $50k on some overseas developers, and put together a lookalike in a few months?

    That is the opposite of sane competition.

  9. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by locovaca View Post
    What incentive do I have to pour millions of dollars into researching and implementing new technologies if company x will wait 2 months, spend $50k on some overseas developers, and put together a lookalike in a few months?

    That is the opposite of sane competition.
    We're talking about people who live in theory and ideology and have very little understanding of the harsh realities businesses face.

  10. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by Veerappan View Post
    That's because for quite a few years, Wine was written specifically towards the Nvidia drivers, bugs and all. Nvidia do have a good GL driver for the most part, but what you're seeing is a side effect of the Wine developers only targetting the Nvidia blob for a long time. That may have changed in the last few years, but it was true for a long time.
    So I hear... ...yet the open-source radeon drivers can run them just fine (although it's more of a glorified slideshow than a game at that point). And the "UT3 unplayable" bug is the oldest unfixed problem in the unofficial fglrx bugzilla. So it is a bug in the driver, and not in Wine. So yes, NVIDIA still has the best blob out there, until issues like this get fixed.

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