The OpenGL Support State For Mesa 8.1

[89c51]

Which isn't required. Like I said, third-party repos have the library packaged, and distro users are familiar with those already.

Familiar or not -and different for each distro- this should be made simpler. Click>install>use.

If installing extra packages makes Linux sucks for him, then it already sucks for him. So why is a special big deal being made out of this particular library?

Installing an exra package with a click through an app shop to enabling various stuff and going through that hassle is fundamentally different.

[Gusar]

@mirv: You completely missed my point. It wasn't at all about the usefulness and benefits of s3tc. I know it's highly useful and therefore used in plenty of games.
My point is this: There's other stuff distros don't ship by default. But a big deal isn't being made of that, because there are established solutions - third-party repos providing what the distro itself can't. S3TC isn't any different: A solution exists, the libtxc_dxtn library, and users can get it from the same third-party repos they get the other stuff from. But somehow s3tc is treated differently from that other stuff, even though the solution is the same. That's what I don't get.

You are trying to defend the broken patent system we have and come with excuses.

Oh, you again with your naivete and overly simple views on complex subjects.

I'm only arguing the existence of a library and the means people have to get that library. Nothing more. I haven't said one word about what I think about the patent system, that's a different discussion. If we had that discussion, I'd be so far away from a "retarded conformist" you couldn't even imagine it.

You are one of those users we need less off. Seriously, fuck off.

If anyone should fuck off here, it's children like you who throw tantrums and aren't capable of proper argumentation, only of stupid name-calling and cursing.

Familiar or not -and different for each distro- this should be made simpler. Click>install>use.

Installing an exra package with a click through an app shop to enabling various stuff and going through that hassle is fundamentally different.

I fully agree on both accounts. But that still doesn't make s3tc different from the other stuff will legal issues.

[mirv]

@mirv: You completely missed my point. It wasn't at all about the usefulness and benefits of s3tc. I know it's highly useful and therefore used in plenty of games.
My point is this: There's other stuff distros don't ship by default. But a big deal isn't being made of that, because there are established solutions - third-party repos providing what the distro itself can't. S3TC isn't any different: A solution exists, the libtxc_dxtn library, and users can get it from the same third-party repos they get the other stuff from. But somehow s3tc is treated differently from that other stuff, even though the solution is the same. That's what I don't get.

Oh, you again with your naivete and overly simple views on complex subjects.

I'm only arguing the existence of a library and the means people have to get that library. Nothing more. I haven't said one word about what I think about the patent system, that's a different discussion. If we had that discussion, I'd be so far away from a "retarded conformist" you couldn't even imagine it.

If anyone should fuck off here, it's children like you who throw tantrums and aren't capable of proper argumentation, only of stupid name-calling and cursing.


I fully agree on both accounts. But that still doesn't make s3tc different from the other stuff will legal issues.

The problem I think is in the what comes pre-packaged. A big part of AMD's open source driver push is that it allows everything to be distributed and work out of the box - no need to go and download extra stuff just to make it work - and it would be nice (and marketable) if s3tc could be included in that. Due to its importance (read: wide spread use), it's much more of an issue than other libs with legal issues.
I'm sure floating point is just as important (and with deferred renderers, it will be), and if s3tc was tomorrow free of legals issues, then the focus would switch to floating point textures.

So while it's not a hassle for some to just download the lib, it is a hassle for the distros, and for game developers who can't be entirely sure that s3tc is supported on a system with open source drivers.

That's my take on it all anyway.

[Gusar]

Due to its importance (read: wide spread use), it's much more of an issue than other libs with legal issues.

I don't think s3tc is more (or less) important than media playback, games and watching videos are both a common thing people do with computers. But your post as a whole makes sense.

[finalzone]

Convenience is the reason. The average user will only care about his game (or whatever) not working. And coming from other operating systems which offer one click installs he won't bother to copy paste commands or built it himself. For him Linux will suck.

Time to put that myth to rest. That aerage joe has his/her system already configured to support favourite game by the vendors. The same statement can apply on plain Microsoft Windows that does not come with hardware acceleration provided by videocard manufacturers like AMD or Nvidia. From the same logic, Microsoft Windows sucks too.

[smitty3268]

If installing extra packages makes Linux sucks for him, then it already sucks for him. So why is a special big deal being made out of this particular library?

Let's make the comparison to the mp3 lib that was mentioned earlier.

In a distro without mp3 support, try playing an mp3. It will probably bring up a message in the player app that the format isn't supported, and link you to a website with some help to explain what's happening. It may even offer a button to install the missing library for you.

Compare that to the st3c library missing - people start up the game, and it segfaults, probably giving some random error message that doesn't really inform you of what caused the problem. What's worse, it will probably vary from game to game, so there is no set error message people can google against. Leaving them with no idea of what the problem is.

Now, they can probably get onto a message board, ask the question, and someone will probably tell them to try installing s3tc. But that's way more effort than your average user is going to go to. They'll just say that the game doesn't work on linux, and leave it at that.

[gamerk2]

Let's make the comparison to the mp3 lib that was mentioned earlier.

In a distro without mp3 support, try playing an mp3. It will probably bring up a message in the player app that the format isn't supported, and link you to a website with some help to explain what's happening. It may even offer a button to install the missing library for you.

Compare that to the st3c library missing - people start up the game, and it segfaults, probably giving some random error message that doesn't really inform you of what caused the problem. What's worse, it will probably vary from game to game, so there is no set error message people can google against. Leaving them with no idea of what the problem is.

Now, they can probably get onto a message board, ask the question, and someone will probably tell them to try installing s3tc. But that's way more effort than your average user is going to go to. They'll just say that the game doesn't work on linux, and leave it at that.

Ding ding ding!

If a library is missing, the user expects to be TOLD its missing, and given either a link to a website or a handly install button. Spitting out various failure messages [which vary by app] is a good way to chase off users very quickly. Throw in the fact that some distros ship with the st3c library and others don't...you get the idea.

[Ansla]

Sorry for high jacking your off topic discussion, but is anybody working on MSAA support in r600g so it can finally advertise OpenGL 3.0?

[whizse]

Yep,
http://cgit.freedesktop.org/~airlied...og/?h=r600g-ms