What Should Valve Do For Linux & Open-Source?

[archibald]

My tuppence: if Valve wish to do more than running steam on Linux and getting games ported to it then that's excellent news and they should be applauded for it. I think that work on optimising the open source drivers would be the best use of their time. If they want to do more, then I would ask that they try to help resolve the S3TC and floating point texture patent problems.

[AJSB]

Some Windows games under WINE have another problem: PUNKBUSTER

For all that use PUNKBUSTER, they don't work and will NEVER work online.

EvenBalance told already so....they will NEVER support WINE.....they do however support native Linux games.

[dumbo]

It's less about "what should Valve do for Linux" and more about "what do Valve need to do".

For steam:
- the marketplace is overcrowded.
- steam's reputation as dynamic/community driven is pretty much zero.
- EA's Origin is a direct threat. (IMHO it's also technically superior - needs a UI rebuild though).
- imho there's a potential for an MS windows 8 app-store for the desktop.
- free-to-play games are damaging the market.
- low-tech indie games are bypassing steam.
- the EU ruling on digitial resales.
- there's little obvious room in the new consoles for a 3rd party marketplace.

There are reasons to be positive (Steam isn't going to shutdown tomorrow) but it doesn't appear to be a particularly strong position.

So, steam needs a new market and regrow some damaged credentials asap...
- offer an incentive for companies to port existing games to linux. (a sales guarantee or something)
- come up with a 'steam standard layout' which distributions can provide (version 1.2 of lib1, version 3 of lib2), installed in standard directories. i.e. /usr/lib/steam/2012.1 /usr/lib/steam/2012.8 [game devs can target one of these]
- do a steam hardware/software survey on linux asap.
- allow/encourage desktop integration of steam by ubuntu et al.

From a consumer point-of-view, valve are interested in profits not linux. It may be that this project is simply a way to gain leverage over MS.

[entropy]

It's less about "what should Valve do for Linux" and more about "what do Valve need to do".
For steam:
- EA's Origin is a direct threat. (IMHO it's also technically superior - needs a UI rebuild though).

Can you elaborate a bit more about the superiority of Origin?
Serious question, I don't know any technical details of Origin.
I always hear people moan about Steam alternatives like Origin
to be way more invasive in terms of DRM.

[dumbo]

Can you elaborate a bit more about the superiority of Origin?
Serious question, I don't know any technical details of Origin.
I always hear people moan about Steam alternatives like Origin
to be way more invasive in terms of DRM.

I'm not an expert, but it doesn't seem that either is more invasive than the other, although I think Origin doesn't even mention DRM. (and their original T&Cs were awful)
- both seem to be applications with webkit frontends and similar amounts of DRM.
- Origin's navigation is a nightmare, browsing/finding things is not obvious. (given the lack of content, this kindof makes sense).
- Steam's interface is 'not slick'. (i.e. Despite being N years old, the back button still does not remember the state of the previous page o_O)
- Origin's interface is far more responsive/slick. (multithreaded? a newer webkit version? better GPU acceleration? simpler html? better/newer os integration? less content? probably all of those...)
- Origin continues to show pre-release versions available for download after the game has released o_O. (i.e. the BF3 beta sits alongside the BF3 release client icon as I 'can' download it, even if it doesn't make any sense).

In the overall scheme of things, both are pretty rubbish, but Origin seems far faster at being rubbish. (afair neither system lets you pick where to install individual software - kindof crazy in a world of SSDs)

-> the complaints I've seen about origin mostly involve the BF3 browser plugin (which isn't even part of origin), the lack of software and "not wanting to run both steam and origin".

It's possible/likely that the Steam/Linux build would involve a rebuild for windows...

[entropy]

If I got you right, your complains are targeted towards Steams UI?

Never had any issue with it, I'm fine how it is.
So it's "only" a complaint about the frontend, which I don't share.
What's important to me is the way the backend is implemented,
in particular DRM. This is were the meat really is. Interfaces can be
overhauled relatively easy in comparison.

Btw, not mentioning DRM does not mean a product is free of it.
DRM can be implemented in various ways, Origin sure is not free of it.

[dumbo]

If I got you right, your complains are targeted towards Steams UI?
Never had any issue with it, I'm fine how it is.
So it's "only" a complaint about the frontend, which I don't share.

Not entirely - Origin seems to be a lot more responsive, faster and stable both visually and as a system. It feels a much better designed/more modern application.

On the other hand, the UI is useless, there's very little content and afair mine describes itself as 'Origin beta' o_O.

What's important to me is the way the backend is implemented,
in particular DRM. This is were the meat really is. Interfaces can be
overhauled relatively easy in comparison.

Btw, not mentioning DRM does not mean a product is free of it.
DRM can be implemented in various ways, Origin sure is not free of it.

Yes - Origin/steam's DRM appears basically the same. What I meant is that steam states 'Game X... DRM: starforce' (or whatever). AFAIR Origin doesn't ever mention the DRM used. But I assume both are essentially the same.

Anyway, Origin (as a system) has unfairly got bad press - imho it's a very good system, with a quick UI revamp it'd be the best online shop... but a shop without many products isn't really a good shop.

It'll be interesting to see what Valve does anyway .

[nightmarex]

No one said that WINE is evil. It is not evil, it is extremely useful. That said, it should not be treated as something it is not: a platform to target in of itself.

Linux will never be a gaming platform unless we have games. But it will also never be a real gaming platform unless we have actual Linux games. If we allow half-measures now we are simply trading in long term growth for short term gain, and that can only hurt us in the long run. We have a clean slate here and we need to build on it the right way. That is why we need to press our case. Linux could become a great gaming platform - but it has to be a Linux gaming platform. Not some weird hybrid.

I should also point out that I have actually had a lot of bad luck running older titles through WINE. The only games that have run really well for me are 1/3 native anyway - games that heavily use OpenGL and other Linux friendly APIs. I have never had any miracles. I actually wish WINE showed more interest in getting older titles to work, as for me, it has often been hit or miss.

When I say Wine is evil, I meant that game developers will not port because they expect you to use Wine for Linux use, which is common (even when they have Mac ports, wtf?!) . Sorry about your bad luck getting things running but that's evil number 2, it doesn't do everything. Hence that's why my suggestion game companies update Wine to run their games flawlessly so even though Linux may never be the next Xbox with a huge native catalog it will run everything under the sun.

Now to companies like Blizzard who release Mac support but not Linux... That's fine, your OGL ports suck so no worries about you poisoning my system... That's where valve gets points. It's ports look to be comparable performance.

[Hamish Wilson]

One thing that Desura should do now that Steam is coming is get a new client release out. They have been working on getting one branched of from Desurium (the free project) for the last few months but they still unfortunately have only limited developer power and things are taking their time. The client still has a few quirks when it comes to handling installing/uninstalling software, I should be able to play videos directly from the client, and it's performance is currently a little sub-par. These really should be fixed before Steam gets released.

For instance, it is actually much more pleasant to browse Desura pages through a regular browser. Everything loads faster and the videos work (and I do not have Flash installed). Now, thanks to the Purchased Downloads feature (which I am very glad they added) one does not even need the client to get their games up and running, but they should still get a new release out. Desura will continue to have a place on the Linux desktop and they should make sure they are in a position to stay strong here.

[DMJC]

To be fair to Mac porting houses, Apple ship low end GPUs in all of their systems and they don't support the latest OpenGL features. Hell OSX Still doesn't handle OpenGL 4.0 Linux has had it for years under the nVidia binary blob driver. You can't really blame Mac porting houses for crap performance on Intel GPUs and OpenGL 3.1. Hell the Mac Pros are still using ATi 5770 GPUs, 5770s! they're heaps old! 7970s are the current equivalent card and OSX doesn't even support them! FWIW I owned a Mac Pro dual quadcore system and I used it for gaming and video production. I blame Apple's choice of video hardware. It was a neat system, amazing power/responsiveness. But completely shit at 3d production/gaming. Apple really need to step up on GL support and modern gpu hardware. 680GTX support would have been a nice start along with SLI support. Why pay $5000 for a computer with Amazing CPUs and completely shit GPU power. Most of the gaming/high end multimedia PC applications nowdays support GPU acceleration. I guess Apple kind of expect people to drop in Quadro/Quatro? cards and aren't interested in people who want maximum CPU cores combined with maximum Frames per second low precision GPU capability. It's a shame because right now you can pickup those systems pretty cheaply. I got my dual quad core a year ago for $2000.