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Thread: People incorrectly assume that AMD drivers suck. They don't.

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  1. #1
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    Default People incorrectly assume that AMD drivers suck. They don't.

    From a post taken of Slashdot...

    You are behind the times, and should really be firing your complaints at Nvidia. For the last couple of years I've used ATI cards for GL development exclusively. Unlike Nvidia cards they actually implement the GL spec to the letter. With Nvidia cards you can pretty much call any old combination of GL functions, and something will appear on screen. They never fail! This is a problem because you never find out errors in your GL code until after you've shipped the product. With ATI, if you pass an invalid arg, or call a method at the wrong time, they will generate the correct error. This sadly leads to a situation where a developer uses an NVidia card for development, ships, and then it won't run on ATI or Intel cards. The upshot is that people incorrectly assume that ATI drivers suck. They don't. Nvidia drivers are the ones that suck!
    http://linux.slashdot.org/comments.p...7&cid=40776403

    I seen posts and blogs about this issue before, stuff written for Nvidia hardware sucks on AMD/Intel hardware cause Nvidia cares not about specs and correctness, just speed and hacks in their OpenGL stack.


    Thoughts?

  2. #2

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    Example in Gnome Shell code: http://ati.cchtml.com/show_bug.cgi?id=432#c14

  3. #3
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    Well, while that is certainly a fact, I've found that Mesa is even more strict. As a matter of fact I have in my hands an app that renders correctly on r600g but fails several areas on fglrx.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rallos Zek View Post
    I seen posts and blogs about this issue before, stuff written for Nvidia hardware sucks on AMD/Intel hardware cause Nvidia cares not about specs and correctness, just speed and hacks in their OpenGL stack.


    Thoughts?
    That could be true. But if I have to choose between a driver that follows specs but doesn't work properly and a driver that uses various hacks but does work and is stable I'd definitly choose the later. Who cares if the driver is "correct" if it crashes the computer?

  5. #5
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    Maybe amd should send free cards to kde and gnome devs to optmize the code path. I really think amd should do more than they did before. Most likely amd devs are forced to use ubuntu at work and when that works they are happy. At home fglrx devs play xbox 360 (with amd chip) and do not use Linux most likely

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by RussianNeuroMancer View Post
    This is actually also a good example of why good bug reporters are required.... didn't get a fix found until after someone got a reasonable back trace for amd to go off of.


    Quote Originally Posted by nej_simon View Post
    That could be true. But if I have to choose between a driver that follows specs but doesn't work properly and a driver that uses various hacks but does work and is stable I'd definitly choose the later. Who cares if the driver is "correct" if it crashes the computer?
    That's the type of logic that produced the Reliant Robin, and kept that going for over 20 years. Although, It's also an important example of why having specifications and following these specifications is key.

    Wikipedia: Reliant Robin
    Youtube.com - Top Gear

    Quote Originally Posted by Kano View Post
    Maybe amd should send free cards to kde and gnome devs to optmize the code path. I really think amd should do more than they did before. Most likely amd devs are forced to use ubuntu at work and when that works they are happy. At home fglrx devs play xbox 360 (with amd chip) and do not use Linux most likely

    I'd actually tend to agree. That, or at least make sure that one or two of the core devs has an amd card at all times and they work with the dev team by submittin bug reports... although, more likely, they will issue code to prevent these bugs from appearing in the first place.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dandel View Post
    You confuse testing suits and debug flags/behaviour with release and production versions. Production versions should continue if its possible, while debug should complain on every possible flaw. 80-year-old grannies with ubuntu ain't engineers!

  8. #8
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    Is there a compliance test for opengl does anybody know of?

    kind of like acid3 ( http://acid3.acidtests.org/ )

    P.S. gnome-shell is awful!

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by D0pamine View Post
    Is there a compliance test for opengl does anybody know of?

    kind of like acid3 ( http://acid3.acidtests.org/ )

    P.S. gnome-shell is awful!
    The only "affordable" compliance test end users can try is called piglit... see it here: http://cgit.freedesktop.org/piglit/

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by nej_simon View Post
    That could be true. But if I have to choose between a driver that follows specs but doesn't work properly and a driver that uses various hacks but does work and is stable I'd definitly choose the later. Who cares if the driver is "correct" if it crashes the computer?
    "Doesn't work properly" is a pretty vague statement though, don't you think? Also that's partly what the quoted text in the first post refers to: that people get the impression the drivers don't work properly, although it's due to sloppy programming in the target application, because nvidia's drivers (to quote another slashdot comment I read a few months ago) "let you get away with murder".
    Why should you care about correct drivers? Specifications are there for a reason: to allow any company to bring their goods to the table and let customers sort things out. Clean competition is a Good Thing (tm).

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