Running Wayland: It Works, But A Lot Of Work Remains

[Mystro256]

One of the main points of Arch is that it doesn't include a default (enforced) setup including some fresh software that might annoy some users. With Arch you're free to build your distro however you want from scratch, so I'd not say Fedora is as vanilla as Arch is.

Yeah, that's likely the reason; if the OS is tailored to the computer, it tends to work better.
Another reason preinstalled Linux computers would be very convenient if they were more prevalent.

[elanthis]

but you like it rough...?

I keep coming back here despite getting no value out of the experience and having relatively little impact in getting people to actually improve things that need improving, so yes, I apparently like it quite rough indeed. :/

[elanthis]

Yeah, that's likely the reason; if the OS is tailored to the computer, it tends to work better.
Another reason preinstalled Linux computers would be very convenient if they were more prevalent.

You weren't around for the early days of the PC, were you?

[Ancurio]

Amen brother! Looks like people above only talk about linux don't actually use it. When was the last time they pushed a new technology out there and it just worked? Seriously, it's more like, whenever I hear some enthusiastic idiots saying they'll release some new stuff I'm thinking here goes anothere 2 hours-2 days of fixing broken crap! It's never rock solid. It never: just works!

Seriously GTFO outta this place and use some other OS. I'm so sick of your shit.
FOSS is and always will be community effort, which means if something doesn't work out,
you don't complain to people you didn't pay, no, you help out yourself.

[daniels]

I keep coming back here despite getting no value out of the experience

phoronix forums stockholm syndrome ...

[BO$$]

Seriously GTFO outta this place and use some other OS. I'm so sick of your shit.
FOSS is and always will be community effort, which means if something doesn't work out,
you don't complain to people you didn't pay, no, you help out yourself.

yeah, next time when you try to get someone to use linux tell them if it doesn't work well it's community effort so get to work bitch!

So what if I don't pay them? I still have a right to complain? WTF is this attitude? If I see a bug I report it. That is complaining. And it's good. That's how we improve. Sometimes it's easier to tell the developer what I don't like so he can fix it instead of me reading tons of code and fixing his bugs. Why do I have to act as if everything is perfect when it isn't? I am sick of people saying that linux is easy or that it just works.

[Ancurio]

yeah, next time when you try to get someone to use linux tell them if it doesn't work well it's community effort so get to work bitch!

So what if I don't pay them? I still have a right to complain? WTF is this attitude? If I see a bug I report it. That is complaining. And it's good. That's how we improve. Sometimes it's easier to tell the developer what I don't like so he can fix it instead of me reading tons of code and fixing his bugs. Why do I have to act as if everything is perfect when it isn't? I am sick of people saying that linux is easy or that it just works.

Why the hell would I try to get people to switch to Linux? I'm not an evangelist. If they find out for themself and/or ask me about it, I'll gladly help them.
Yes, you have a right to complain, just as you have the right to be an ahole. The thing is, no one listens to aholes. Your pointless ranting on Phoronix forums
has exactly 0% effect on the development of the software in question. Reporting bugs is good. Yelling at people because they don't use up
their free time to fix them instead of earning money is just being an asshole.

Also, no one is saying Linux is "easy or just works", no one except for zealots maybe. Often it just works, sometimes it doesn't.
And I'm really sorry that you've been "misguided" by zealots into using Linux. But there's just no point in marketing it as something it isn't,
so you shouldn't either.

[kazetsukai]

Ancurio
Also, no one is saying Linux is "easy or just works", no one except for zealots maybe. Often it just works, sometimes it doesn't.
And I'm really sorry that you've been "misguided" by zealots into using Linux. But there's just no point in marketing it as something it isn't,
so you shouldn't either.

When you've done your homework and purchased well known, supported hardware, Linux is easy, and yes it does just work. Linux installers have, for a long period of time, been far superior to the Windows installers for one reason: Human beings had to actually install it to use it.

It doesn't take alot of effort to check the support status of hardware on Linux, and even less time to setup a system once you have a good baseline. But guess what, for the average user this doesn't help one bit.

OEMs could much easier do this work themselves, delivering well tested Linux installations with supported hardware to the masses. One thing I think Valve is going to teach us is how to reasonably do package management on a per-user level (thus, not requiring root)... and hopefully, someone will pick up the torch and implement a similar FOSS solution on all major distributions.

That's the missing piece, people. We need one /home level package manager to rule them all, and then all of the problems for OEMs basically disappear, and Linux JUST WORKS on the hardware it has been tested on.

By the way, I fucking hate PulseAudio, and don't use it. DMix does the job, (contrary to what alot of know-nothings that lurk around here say). For my uses it works, and more transparently than PA. Don't blame the applications, eg: "They use PA as/via ALSA (emulation) so they suck", they're just expecting ALSA, and PA's ALSA emulation isn't perfect. This horse has been beaten to death, then to a pulp, then to a blood pile, and now almost to DUST. People obviously have problems with it or they wouldn't complain... just like people obviously have had success with it or they wouldn't use it. I still install it from time to time to see if the status quo has changed.

Really though, enough of the personal attacks. It doesn't add anything, and just brings you to a lower status than the people you're bashing.

[johnc]

I keep coming back here despite getting no value out of the experience and having relatively little impact in getting people to actually improve things that need improving, so yes, I apparently like it quite rough indeed. :/

Don't worry... I like you. And isn't that all that really matters?

Why the hell would I try to get people to switch to Linux? I'm not an evangelist. If they find out for themself and/or ask me about it, I'll gladly help them.

I guess there's a sense that if Linux had a broader user base, more software would be available for the platform. E.g., I kinda still need to hold on to Windows to play some games. So there is a certain side benefit if desktop Linux were to become more mainstream.

[BO$$]

Why the hell would I try to get people to switch to Linux? I'm not an evangelist. If they find out for themself and/or ask me about it, I'll gladly help them.
Yes, you have a right to complain, just as you have the right to be an ahole. The thing is, no one listens to aholes. Your pointless ranting on Phoronix forums
has exactly 0% effect on the development of the software in question. Reporting bugs is good. Yelling at people because they don't use up
their free time to fix them instead of earning money is just being an asshole.

Also, no one is saying Linux is "easy or just works", no one except for zealots maybe. Often it just works, sometimes it doesn't.
And I'm really sorry that you've been "misguided" by zealots into using Linux. But there's just no point in marketing it as something it isn't,
so you shouldn't either.

I am not saying you personally try to get people on linux. But I don't think you are against the idea of linux having a larger marketshare (think more developers involved -> maybe less bugs??). But it's a chicken and egg problem: to have a larger marketshare you need less bugs in the first place and to be more user friendly. So, instead of having a system that is 95% good and throwing it away to start from scratch (tell me how many times has this happened in linux? Everybody starts from scratch and thinks this new design is the shit while the previous ones are shit) like it's happening now with x and wayland, I say fuck wayland just improve x.

Another example, we had compiz 0.8 written in C. The developer rewritten it for C++. Of course, for a couple of versions it's shit (12.04 being a shitty standout). What was so wrong about keeping it in C and improving it from there? It was 95% ok, but nooooo we have to start again...and then again..and then again. Linux could take over a larger marketshare, but the devs jump to do a thing that already worked from scratch, they get all the media attention(ohhh look wayland, I'm cumming!), and it's never good enough for the real market. And when they'll release it we won't see an improvement, in fact most likely we will have problems...and then we will start from scratch once again, this time we'll do it right!