NVIDIA 304.37 Linux Driver Brings 41 Official Changes

[RealNC]

Nobody is shoving anything down your throat, you are free to use whatever you want -- including a blob.

It is you who are shoving closed-source down our throats, and into the kernel. Just open up the documentation, then OSS proponents can ALSO have a choice.

For you, forcing closed source blobs on everyone is great, but offering a CHOICE between an open driver and a closed one is "forcing open source down their throats". If you don't want to run a FLOSS system, there are many operating systems for you to choose from. Why are you trying to dictate Linux developers how to license their shit? You have BSD, you can shove any old shit in there, go use that.

How contradictory. First you claim that Linux isn't forcing open source on vendors, then you say it does and if you don't like it then go away.

"Why are you trying to dictate Linux developers how to license their shit?"
Oh yeah? Why are linux devs trying to dictate NVidia how to license their shit? They aren't forcing them? What about the "fuck you NVidia" thing?

[ninez]

Nobody is shoving anything down your throat, you are free to use whatever you want -- including a blob.

It is you who are shoving closed-source down our throats, and into the kernel. Just open up the documentation, then OSS proponents can ALSO have a choice.

For you, forcing closed source blobs on everyone is great, but offering a CHOICE between an open driver and a closed one is "forcing open source down their throats". If you don't want to run a FLOSS system, there are many operating systems for you to choose from. Why are you trying to dictate Linux developers how to license their shit? You have BSD, you can shove any old shit in there, go use that.

except you didn't actually read what he wrote. He was saying kernel developers are trying to force manufacturers, not force things down RealNC's throat. Using some simple logic and reason here ~ can you actually explain how RealNC is shoving closed-source down your throat, exactly?? and if him or I choose to install Nvidia on our local machines, we are not forcing anything into the kernel. Linux kernel developers allowed Nvidia into the kernel in the first place by not making everything EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL.

the OS proponents do have a choice, use Nouveau or don't use Nvidia hardware - it's pretty simple :\

...and no one is dictating how linux kernel developers should be licensing thier code ~ it is entirely up to them. Please, stop making up stuff.

I really don't see why you are getting so mad - take a chill pill, k?

[pingufunkybeat]

top-notch would mean to me, being equal or surpasses all other drivers - this is not the case with Intel's linux drivers.

Then no driver is top-notch, because no driver can claim this, least of all Nvidia's blob.

Intel's driver offers performance on par with Windows, offers HW decode and complete powersaving, GL 3 (3.3 is around the corner), that's a top-notch driver. OpenCL is missing, but nobody is using Intel's stuff for that anyway.

[pingufunkybeat]

except you didn't actually read what he wrote. He was saying kernel developers are trying to force manufacturers, not force things down RealNC's throat.

That's also not true. They want a release of documentation.

Using some simple logic and reason here ~ can you actually explain how RealNC is shoving closed-source down your throat, exactly??

By preventing a fully-featured open source driver. The result is that (without nouveau), you cannot run Nvidia on a fully open system. That's the definition of pushing closed source down the throats of every nvidia owner.

Just release the documentation, give people a CHOICE.

the OS proponents do have a choice, use Nouveau or don't use Nvidia hardware - it's pretty simple :\

And the only sane answer to this is: Fuck you Nvidia!

...and no one is dictating how linux kernel developers should be licensing thier code ~ it is entirely up to them. Please, stop making up stuff.

This whole discussion is about licensing of exported symbols, isn't it?

[pingufunkybeat]

How contradictory. First you claim that Linux isn't forcing open source on vendors, then you say it does and if you don't like it then go away.

No, I said that YOU can use anything you want.

Kernel is GPL with an exception for modules. Nothing has changed about that, and Nvidia is still making their binary blob, and nobody has forced them to do anything.

This anti-GPL, "everything must be closed" astroturfing is tiresome. Just release the documentation and keep your blob. Why do you fear people runnign a free driver? What do you lose if nouveau gets better?

Oh yeah? Why are linux devs trying to dictate NVidia how to license their shit? They aren't forcing them? What about the "fuck you NVidia" thing?

When did linux devs try to dictate how Nvidia should license their shit?

Source please.

[ninez]

Then no driver is top-notch, because no driver can claim this, least of all Nvidia's blob.

So supporting all of the latest Kronos/GL standards, out performing all other drivers available ~ outperforming the Windows driver in Valve's benchmarking doesn't count, supporting xorg 1.13 before AMD doesn't count, nor does anything else?? ya, right.

it sounds to me like you are just a hater - and if you hate Nvidia - then why waste your energy, trolling an Nvidia trhead ~ wouldn't your time be better served doing something else?

Intel's driver offers performance on par with Windows, offers HW decode and complete powersaving, GL 3 (3.3 is around the corner), that's a top-notch driver. OpenCL is missing, but nobody is using Intel's stuff for that anyway.

You keep talking about all these great things around the corner, the problem is (of course) all of these things already exist in Windows and are being taken advantage of by the OS and software developers. So NO, it is not 'on par' ~ and that is VERY obvious.

again - take a chill pill, and stop trolling. if you don't like Nvidia then don't buy their products, but stop bitching/trolling about it. it's that simple.

I think Intel is doing a relatively good job, providing decent drivers and should be applauded for their efforts, but i am not delusional enough to make the claims you are.

[RealNC]

That's also not true. They want a release of documentation.

And thus are trying to force "open-ness".

By preventing a fully-featured open source driver. The result is that (without nouveau), you cannot run Nvidia on a fully open system.

So what?

That's the definition of pushing closed source down the throats of every nvidia owner.

No, it's not. NVidia never claimed that their products were open. In fact, they even claimed that they don't even intent to open them. You have prior knowledge before you buy.

Just release the documentation, give people a CHOICE.

If someone doesn't want to disclose their specs, you must be a able to respect their decision. Choice is already there: don't buy NVidia if open specs are important to you. It's as simple as that.

And the only sane answer to this is: Fuck you Nvidia!

Actually, it's a troll answer, not a sane answer :-/

This whole discussion is about licensing of exported symbols, isn't it?

It's also about forcing companies to change their business model just because their current one doesn't happen to suit you.

[Naib]

if your main concern is open drivers then stick with intel gpu or low-end ati.
if your main concern is quality and performance then stick with high end ati or nvidia (more nvidia tbf) its quite simple.

I buy nvidia (and recently upgrade to a 500 series from an aging 9000) because they provide the best support and performance.

ATI NEVER opened their drivers NOR their specs
AMD open the specs NOT the drivers because they couldn't provide support not out of good will...

nvidia have shown time and time again they provide good support (for cards in their support list) for newer xorg api/abi etc...


What is nvidia's incentives in opening the spec or driver?
is it the competition? not really, ati open drivers are still miles behind
Want nvidia to open their drivers then either support via your wallet by going to ati, support via your dev skills (if you have any) to get ati drivers upto par. bad mouthing and being a self-entitled dick is not going todo it.



Do you bitch an moan about Intel/AMD not opening their microcode? bitch and moan to mobo makers to open their bios? seems more like a selective hate than a true advocate of openness...

[pingufunkybeat]

So supporting all of the latest Kronos/GL standards, out performing all other drivers available ~ outperforming the Windows driver in Valve's benchmarking doesn't count, supporting xorg 1.13 before AMD doesn't count, nor does anything else?? ya, right.

Nvidia blob is fine from a performance view -- I've never claimed the opposite.

But they don't support xrandr fully, they don't support many Nvidia products (Intel's drivers support EVERYTHING), they are not fully integrated in distributions because kernel bits need to be recompiled at every upgrade, and there's the added bonus of breaking when your hardware support gets dropped to maintenance mode.

So they don't do everything better than every other driver, like you claim

it sounds to me like you are just a hater - and if you hate Nvidia - then why waste your energy, trolling an Nvidia trhead ~ wouldn't your time be better served doing something else?

No, I don't have Nvidia, I hate the fact that they are snubbing the OSS crowd and refusing to release documentation for their stuff. Instead of blacklisting nouveau -- or maybe in addition to blacklisting it -- they should also help them a bit. The fact that they don't shows that they are acting like assholes.

Same was true for ATi before the AMD takeover.

[pingufunkybeat]

No, it's not. NVidia never claimed that their products were open. In fact, they even claimed that they don't even intent to open them. You have prior knowledge before you buy.

Linus never claimed that the linux kernel is closed, or that he intends to compromise its development model for people who insist on being closed. In fact, he has always clearly stated the opposite.

You have prior knowledge before you buy. Linux is not for you.

It's also about forcing companies to change their business model just because their current one doesn't happen to suit you.

Linux is older than Nvidia. Companies shouldn't force it to change its development model just because it doesn't happen to suit their business strategy.

Other vendors are working very happily within the Linux community. If you find that you have problems with your closed-source drivers, maybe you're using wrong hardware, or the wrong OS.