Qt 5.0 Beta Not Here Due To Difficulties

[RealNC]

We're doing circles.

You cannot use C++ to do all the new stuff (animations, transitions, transformations, etc.) You HAVE to use QML. I don't like to write in QML. It's awful, like with many other languages where strict compiler checking has been thrown down the toilet. If I wanted that, I would write in Python or something and use its Qt bindings.

It's like putting away with C in Gtk and tell everyone to use VisalBasic or something. Because that's what happened here.

[RealNC]

And btw, I'm not alone in this. In a poll that was posted:

http://qt-project.org/forums/viewthread/16693/

Nobody cared for any features other than Desktop integration and a C++ API. Many people, no matter how feature rich Qt Quick gets, consider it a PITA unless you can use it from C++.

[ShadowBane]

We're doing circles.

You cannot use C++ to do all the new stuff (animations, transitions, transformations, etc.) You HAVE to use QML. I don't like to write in QML. It's awful, like with many other languages where strict compiler checking has been thrown down the toilet. If I wanted that, I would write in Python or something and use its Qt bindings.

It's like putting away with C in Gtk and tell everyone to use VisalBasic or something. Because that's what happened here.

Oh no, they added a declaritive way of doing UIs. Unfortunately doing declaritive programming in an imparitive language (C++) doesn't work that well.. I am pretty sure that they have C++ stuff in the works, but it may or not be there for 5.0. Declaritve programming is very good for for UIs though, no reason to complain about it.

[RealNC]

Declaritve programming is very good for for UIs though

I strongly disagree.

[ShadowBane]

I strongly disagree.

Ok, so if declaritive programming is worse for UIs than imparitive programming why is the use of declaritive languages to create user interfaces on the rise?

Also, what exactly makes imparitive languages good for user interfaces?

[RealNC]

IMO GUI programming is nothing special. It doesn't need special treatment from a programmer's point of view. The need for non-programmers to create GUIs is the reason for this move. GUI designers who know Photoshop but not C (or similar languages), can now create GUIs (you can export QML from graphics tools.)

That's good. I support it. But don't shut me off from being able to work with my preferred tools for no reason. QML is not better for me. It's better for others, because they can't use what I use.

[TheBlackCat]

IMO GUI programming is nothing special. It doesn't need special treatment from a programmer's point of view. The need for non-programmers to create GUIs is the reason for this move. GUI designers who know Photoshop but not C (or similar languages), can now create GUIs (you can export QML from graphics tools.)

It isn't quite that simple. QML allows for the new scenegraph system, which apparently improves GUI performance considerably and allows for smooth animations like transitions. So there are specific technical benefits to it besides making it easier for non-programmers.

That's good. I support it. But don't shut me off from being able to work with my preferred tools for no reason. QML is not better for me. It's better for others, because they can't use what I use.

Nobody is shut off from anything, qwidget is still there in Qt 5.

[RealNC]

It isn't quite that simple. QML allows for the new scenegraph system, which apparently improves GUI performance considerably and allows for smooth animations like transitions. So there are specific technical benefits to it besides making it easier for non-programmers.

That's not QML. That's the underlying base code. You get access to it through QML only.

It seems you missed the point (even though I wrote it down many times). So I'll write it once again: Why *only* QML?

Nobody is shut off from anything, qwidget is still there in Qt 5.

"Improves GUI performance considerably and allows for smooth animations like transitions."

You're shut off from that with QWidget.

[TheBlackCat]

It seems you missed the point (even though I wrote it down many times). So I'll write it once again: Why *only* QML?

Because that is the whole point of using a declarative language. With an imperative language like C++, you have to tell the system exactly how to do what you want it to do. With a declarative language you tell the system what you want in the end, and the system figures out the best way to accomplish it. And the latter case is exactly what scenegraph is all about, it knows what the finished product should look like, so it can then figure out exactly how to go about producing that in the most efficient possible way. That is fundamentally impossible with an imperative language like C++, where you have to manually lay out each rendering step.

I guess, theoretically, you could embed a new declarative language inside C++ code, but that really doesn't do what you want it to do, because it still wouldn't be C++, in the end it would still be a new language.

And you can't do it at all with qwidget, since by definition qwidgets have their rendering code inside the class, which is exactly what scenegraph was designed to avoid. So no matter how you implemented the declarative language, you could never use qwidget.

[curaga]

Because that is the whole point of using a declarative language. With an imperative language like C++, you have to tell the system exactly how to do what you want it to do. With a declarative language you tell the system what you want in the end, and the system figures out the best way to accomplish it. And the latter case is exactly what scenegraph is all about, it knows what the finished product should look like, so it can then figure out exactly how to go about producing that in the most efficient possible way. That is fundamentally impossible with an imperative language like C++, where you have to manually lay out each rendering step.

I guess, theoretically, you could embed a new declarative language inside C++ code, but that really doesn't do what you want it to do, because it still wouldn't be C++, in the end it would still be a new language.

And you can't do it at all with qwidget, since by definition qwidgets have their rendering code inside the class, which is exactly what scenegraph was designed to avoid. So no matter how you implemented the declarative language, you could never use qwidget.

EFL disagrees with you. Scene graph in C.