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Thread: Valve Releases New CS: Global Offensive Trailer

  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by KameZero View Post
    How is that different from buying a game from anywhere else? Including buying an actual DVD of the game. Gotta read those licenses you agree to.
    While there are some (recent EA, Ubisoft) that are like that outside Steam too, many are not. This example may be old, but that C&C: RA in my shelf will stay playable to eternity as long as there's hw or emulator able to run it.

    Simply put, do not buy something you only license, with always-on connection, or other DRM.

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by curaga View Post
    While there are some (recent EA, Ubisoft) that are like that outside Steam too, many are not. This example may be old, but that C&C: RA in my shelf will stay playable to eternity as long as there's hw or emulator able to run it.

    Simply put, do not buy something you only license, with always-on connection, or other DRM.
    It may be playable but that doesn't necessarily mean you own it, did you actually read the license you agree to? Games and most other software have been "we are giving you the right to use this until we deem otherwise" for a long time.

    Note: I don't actually know what c&c: RA's license is.

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by curaga View Post
    That's entirely true, they often have good deals. But it's also true that it's not for the game, it's for a lease of the game, only valid for as long as Valve likes you. And having to use Steam, which is a DRM platform and thus malware.
    So. Just don't cheat in multiplayer or set up multiple Steam accounts to mine achievements during their Christmas sales. As far as DRM goes Steam is far less intrusive (and far more convenient as a store) than anything else.

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by yogi_berra View Post
    So. Just don't cheat in multiplayer or set up multiple Steam accounts to mine achievements during their Christmas sales. As far as DRM goes Steam is far less intrusive (and far more convenient as a store) than anything else.
    "It doesn't kill your firstborn, only rapes your secondborn, so it's therefore entirely acceptable just because it's less evil than competitors"

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by curaga View Post
    "It doesn't kill your firstborn, only rapes your secondborn, so it's therefore entirely acceptable just because it's less evil than competitors"
    This seems like a totally logical and apt comparison. Certainly not blowing anything as simple as playing a computer game way out of proportion.

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by curaga View Post
    "It doesn't kill your firstborn, only rapes your secondborn, so it's therefore entirely acceptable just because it's less evil than competitors"
    Normally I'd agree with you, but in this case I'm not going to for the simple reason that pretty much no resonable gamer likes cheaters, and thus we're all happy to subscribe to a service which punishes them. You want to cheat, feel free to go elsewhere.

    For the record though, you don't get a banned account for cheating, only banned from that anticheat, really. Where theres a more apt problem is your account may be limited if you perform a charge back. However, charge backs aren't really ment for those who buy games, play them, and charge back. If you're not doing something extremely cheeky like this, you shouldn't really run into any real problems.

    Now if valve goes bankrupt, or gets sold you have a problem. Being in Europe, I own my games, and I'll be totally justified in downloading them all and cracking them. However, it still is an issue, and is one of the reasons I tend not to pay full price for games. On the other hand, most big games are doing the online DRM thing and I believe EA has a habit of shutting down multiplay servers when they release a new version, so its more of a "i quit gaming" problem than a "I wont use valve" unless you prefer to stick with only humble bundles.

    Either way, I personally feels valve is basically the only (or first, at least) DRM which justified itself in the market, and I'm happy with the sales / unlimited downloads trade off it offers. Nobody is forcing you to buy the games.

    Edit: By the way, valve doesn't force you to use DRM (other than to download your game client). Many of the games work directly by launching the .exe, only some require steam verification to run. The reasons games use valve DRM is because the publisher / dev wants to use it, otherwise they don't need to. I'm more than happy with this DRM when you compare it to 3 x limited installs, rootkits, or always on drm competitors offer.
    Last edited by ownagefool; 08-23-2012 at 09:02 AM.

  7. #47
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    I'm not sure how I should feel about you only focusing on what the users would do (cheat, chargeback) and completely ignore the power Valve has over you. They don't have to go under, they only have to dislike you, and with one click *tada* you have nothing you bought from them anymore working.

    And this is entirely within their EULA, so you can't even complain or sue.

    To voluntarily allow anybody such power, and to continue to be under it, is about the definition of foolishness.



    Talking about EA or Sony or the quality of games nowadays would be (even more) offtopic. But suffice it to say there are always choices.

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by curaga View Post
    I'm not sure how I should feel about you only focusing on what the users would do (cheat, chargeback) and completely ignore the power Valve has over you. They don't have to go under, they only have to dislike you, and with one click *tada* you have nothing you bought from them anymore working.
    I responded to the examples you gave. You'll need to go quite far to find an example of valve actually doing wrong by a customer and not correcting the issue, because valve is a fairly good company. The only real worry is that valve won't always be a fairly good company, which is where problems will ensue. I also already stated, there is very real difference from buying the majority of games or software, the vast majority is licensed to you, so either you stick with free software or you go without.

    Quote Originally Posted by curaga View Post
    And this is entirely within their EULA, so you can't even complain or sue.
    I already stated I'm European. Its possible that you don't know local law, but its already been decided that if you license something for an unlimited period the same way valve has, its yours, you own it. Similarly, EULAs have no bearing in Europe, cannot overwrite local law, and particularly don't matter because you part with your money before you ever see the EULA. We also don't really do software patents, it'd be nice if you'd stop holding the rest of us back. :P

    Quote Originally Posted by curaga View Post
    To voluntarily allow anybody such power, and to continue to be under it, is about the definition of foolishness.
    Its a game man, and I've already told you, I buy them on sale, play them once, and never think of them again for the most part. There is a legitimate ideological concern, i agree, but calling me foolish for being pragmatic over something that barely registered on my care-o-meter is silly.

    Quote Originally Posted by curaga View Post
    Talking about EA or Sony or the quality of games nowadays would be (even more) offtopic. But suffice it to say there are always choices.
    Only those choices are worse that steam for the vast majority of games. Basically beyond what, the witcher 2, which big games of the last year or 2 have no DRM? I already told you, feel free to go without, the problem you have is you'd like me to go without, and I honestly couldn't give a flying banana what you think on that issue.
    Last edited by ownagefool; 08-23-2012 at 12:05 PM.

  9. #49
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    It won't be just about games, didn't you hear, they're adding general software to Steam. How would you like that 1500$ Photoshop not working because Valve decides so?

    Only those choices are worse that steam for the vast majority of games. Basically beyond what, the witcher 2, which big games of the last year or 2 have no DRM?
    Offtopic But how many of those last-2-years big-name games are any good, even worth playing? Most of what comes out of EA is plain crap.

    For the few decent ones (personally, I liked Dead Space), you can choose to play on a console that's not connected to the net. At least _yet_ they're not requiring consoles to be connected.

    Or, one can choose to support indies like you said (Humble Bundles etc).

    I already told you, feel free to go without, the problem you have is you'd like me to go without, and I honestly couldn't give a flying banana what you think on that issue.
    Huh? I'm not trying to convert you. I'm having a discussion about the merits of Steam.

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by curaga View Post
    And this is entirely within their EULA, so you can't even complain or sue.
    EULA's count as binding legal contracts... pretty much nowhere.

    It basically comes down to a tradeoff:

    I like cloud saves, being able to redownload games whenever I want, no hassle installation, automatic updates, and the slew of other features steam gives you.

    In return, I'm more than happy to buy games on steam, even the ones that use steams light form of DRM.

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