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Thread: The State Of Open-Source Radeon Driver Features

  1. #161
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    Quote Originally Posted by bridgman View Post
    Very roughly, I would say that maybe half of the development is done by AMD developers and half by the community, including RH developers as well as Marek and others. Something like that...
    You want people to start improving and hacking your stack, while you yourself give crap about opensource, that would be a miracle to materialize.
    If you want people to work on your drivers, you need to perform serious motivation management, no less weaker than your average windows marketing Something like that

    To counter "but will it blend?" question - answer "seed plenty to reap plenty", even good soil won't change this fact. But you do need to "pour less water"

  2. #162
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    I don't think anybody ever expected thousands of developers. We all knew that gpu development was going to be difficult. If there were thousands of developers they would have already been on the scene prior to AMD's involvement. That didnt happen because there arent that many people who have the knowledge and skill set to develop graphics drivers.

    It's time to face the facts that gpu driver development is difficult and complex work that very few people can do. And those folks that do have the ability deserve to get paid for their work.

    I don't know who "demanded" anything... It was more like "need"

  3. #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by bridgman View Post
    Depends on what you mean by "complete". There's a big difference between what the open source dev community would consider complete and what we need to win in the 3D workstation market (a whole lot of expensive performance optimization work). Sharing code across all OSes gives us access to maybe 50x the development budget for the shared components (eg 3D).

    Remember that NVidia used to have essentially 100% of the market and we had zero -- recent reports suggest we're up to 19% which is a big improvement.
    And it doesnt matter. It has 50x the budget and yet it is a barely functional unstable buggy pile of crap. In the vast majority of use cases it simply doesnt work. Sure its faster, but what does that matter if it doesnt render properly or crashes the x server or panics the kernel.

    We don't need per app performance optimizations... We need stable functionality. I use the oss drivers on our workstations because it works well. But I can't get fglrx to be stable. I've tried everything and I just can't get it to be reliable. I've been patient enough. I've been waiting for years for fglrx to mature or for the oss drivers to finish basic functionality. Right now I'm more or less happy with the oss drivers, but the proprietary drivers are still just as much crap as they have always been.

  4. #164
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    Just for clarification hyperz is enabled by default in mesa master provided you have a proper kernel.

  5. #165
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    Quote Originally Posted by glisse View Post
    Just for clarification hyperz is enabled by default in mesa master provided you have a proper kernel.
    Is hyperz that stable to be enabled by default today ? I remember i was always have issues with it, especially with lighting - *lights thourough the wall* issue on r200.

  6. #166
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    Quote Originally Posted by bridgman View Post
    Um... no. I think I said something different
    You just talk in this language to us: "Newspeak" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newspeak

    You don't need to confirm, in whatsoever language you like to speak, what we already know because of the facts and history.

    the opensource movement of AMD is a PR-alibi event.

    yes a nice, very nice PR-alibi-event but its still a PR-alibi-event.

    its like a borg talking to us: we are borg we are not so bad for you as you may think.


  7. #167
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    Qaridarium/necro-lover posting a 4chan-style image is a sure sign that this thread is about to degenerate into lots of noise and little signal. At least it was nice to have a status update and intelligent conversation with AMD driver devs (thanks, folks).

  8. #168
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    Quote Originally Posted by BO$$ View Post
    Exactly the reason AMD shouldn't contribute to open source. Because of these idiots. Take the hint bridgman and only work on proprietary. And better yet, don't provide a driver for linux at all. Let them feel the squeeze.
    Yeah, we've been thinking of switching to BSD.

    (runs and hides)

  9. #169
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    Quote Originally Posted by BO$$ View Post
    @bridgman

    Hello there! I did a small survey among friends asking them what would they choose: a driver that is open source but slower and doesn't implement all features or a proprietary driver that works just like in windows in terms of speed and functionality? They all answered proprietary.

    From what I've read, your duty as an employee of AMD is to provide the most value to the company, that is contribute most to their bottom line. And how do you do that? By listening to your customers and serving their needs to your best ability. Your customers want the proprietary drivers. They don't care about this open source bullshit. They just want something that is equally fast to their windows driver. The radeon driver isn't it. So, instead of wasting your time and your company's money, I think that since people want the proprietary driver you should focus on that one. You actually should focus on those guys at X.org and tell them to stop changing the ABI every damn month so you don't have to change things in the proprietary driver just so it can work on the new version. I think that your company and your customers would be best served if you and other people at AMD manage to convince those guys from X.org to actually write a good API once and for all and drop support for the radeon driver.

    Just my 2 cents. Have a good day!
    Hello idiot!

    Point 1:
    I did a small survey here too: http://phoronix.com/forums/showthrea...-abadon-Nvidia
    Result for the lazy:


    Point 2:
    We have problems exactly because AMD and Co produce closed source drivers.
    If windows driver would be opensource, we would have exactly same features under Linux (and BSD, and Haiku etc) already.

    Point 3:
    The reason why closed source AMD driver is lacking features of closed source Windows driver, is because AMD LACKS MANPOWER.
    If the base driver would be opensource - they would need to only write one driver and only request community to push their driver on different OSes.
    But because closed source driver has secrets, patents and DRM all over the place, only the initiated are allowed to do this and every initiated must be overseen, which results in:
    1) a ROLL of people which do MONKEY JOBS instead of direct programming.
    2) ONLY couple of OSes supported
    3) ONLY ONE OS from this couple is FULLY supported

    Point 4:
    Linux is flagship opensource OS. If you want to blobbify and close everything, you obviously chosen wrong OS and wrong forum!

    UP: Point 5:
    If you dislike windows, go start your own proprietary OS and enjoy IMMEDIATE FAILURE.
    Because no proprietary driver will support your stupid OS, because you lack marketshare.
    Last edited by crazycheese; 01-17-2013 at 04:56 PM.

  10. #170
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    Quote Originally Posted by BO$$ View Post
    @bridgman

    Hello there! I did a small survey among friends asking them what would they choose: a driver that is open source but slower and doesn't implement all features or a proprietary driver that works just like in windows in terms of speed and functionality? They all answered proprietary.

    From what I've read, your duty as an employee of AMD is to provide the most value to the company, that is contribute most to their bottom line. And how do you do that? By listening to your customers and serving their needs to your best ability. Your customers want the proprietary drivers. They don't care about this open source bullshit. They just want something that is equally fast to their windows driver. The radeon driver isn't it. So, instead of wasting your time and your company's money, I think that since people want the proprietary driver you should focus on that one. You actually should focus on those guys at X.org and tell them to stop changing the ABI every damn month so you don't have to change things in the proprietary driver just so it can work on the new version. I think that your company and your customers would be best served if you and other people at AMD manage to convince those guys from X.org to actually write a good API once and for all and drop support for the radeon driver.

    Just my 2 cents. Have a good day!
    This is a perfectly valid arguement IF the proprietary drivers were stable.... But they arent.... They simply don't work for the vast majority of people. They crash the x server, they panic the kernel and they don't render shaders properly.

    Tell us why should they invest more time into something that doesnt work and never has?

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