OpenSUSE: Not Everyone Likes SystemD

[Pallidus]

systemd is good shit

/thread

[gilboa]

And BTW, systemd itself can leave your system unbootable (!!) - go ask Fedora 18 testers - they will surely demonstrate to you their anger.

A technical reason why systemd sucks big time?

Try to boot your system the old init = /bin/bash way, you won't be able to do anything with it, as udev was replaced with systemd and systemd cannot run when it's not a system init process.

That's called broken by design.

Sorry, but I have to say, f*ck Lennart Poettering and f*ck systemd. systemd has become a single point of failure, a Swiss army knife which once getting broken renders your system completely unusable. That's f*cking wrong. That reeks of bad incompetent design decisions.

I can sum up your point in:
1. You have little understanding on how Linux boots or actually, how many single points of failure existing during the boot process (Hint: *Many*).
2. You have no idea how SysV works (Hint: SysV is no better when it comes to major error handling, such as rootfs mount failure)
3. You *really* hate Lennart Poettering.

Running for the troll of the year award? *, **


- Gilboa
* Now, you may actually be a constructive member of the community that suffered from a *very* bad hair day. In this case, I'd really consider deleting this post. It reflects *very* badly on your technical merits.

** EDIT:

I've promised myself numerous times not to argue with people who fail to see father than their nose, who call names, who carefully choose to attack you instead of trying to do something for the common good and I'm doing this mistake again.

Give your OP message quoted above (especially the f*ck part), I'd start by looking at the mirror.

[gilboa]

Thank G-d you are Holier than thou!

I bow before your humbleness. That's the western way of debate, people are invested, that's not like Japanesey 'debates' where it seems no one disagrees, and thus everyone is happy cuddling themselves. It's even stronger in the FOSS community since people just do whatever, hierarchy is commit access, everyone is free to work the way they want, and most people want to keep it that way.

So it's not even close to an "us vs them" mentality, it's just plain stupid to try and force things since the sole principle of FOSS is that people's own effort is based on choice. This mentality that you can force people to be happy is pure fantasy, just like forcing systemd or really, anything! Your argument is as flawed as your logic, cuddle&be_happy would be a pretty sight but it is, objectively, unreal. We can't solve problems with love and Thai massages, and specially in a would-be free environment the most important freedom is always freedom to dissent.

But hey! I am sure it's being taken way for our own good, so it's cool huh?

Get over it.
No one is taking *anything* from you. No one is forcing you to use systemd, PA or GNOME 3.
Don't like OpenSUSE for using SystemD, stop ranting like a 5 y/o kid and switch Distro.

Repeat after me: this is *OpenSource*. Those who do the work, get to make the decisions.

- Gilboa

[WorBlux]

I do understand why people may dislike the idea of systemd inclusion, Lennart Poettering has shown time and again that what he thinks is right is the only way to go and you can go f*ck yourself if you want to use your computer differently (for instance doing things the old SysVinit way).

The Open Source movement is a major f*ck up - there are a lot less people working on Linux yet people cannot even come to an agreement and work for the same purpose of making a better system.

You can still run systemV scripts with systemd.

[WorBlux]

It seems to me that everyone is going to systemd because they don't wanna to maintain their own init stuff. Makes sense.

However, this push is going through while systemd is far from perfect, arguably worse than system v init style.

It's bad enough that people are willing to support their own forks.

In a more or less funny way, it's actually similar to pulseaudio. Me too, I liked the pulseaudio features and decided to close my eyes on the inherent design issues. Few years later, I'm using pure alsa, because pulseaudio design issues and complexity just annoy the hell out of me.

Systemd has design issues. The log handling. The abstraction of all the things. Binaryzation of all the things. This is far from KISS.

Yes, having logs that you can search in less than linear time, and being certain of things beyond the timestamp is to terrible.

SystemD still parses text files to get it's configuration data, and in addition promises to standardize the file location of certain system configuration file.

[freedam]

I know i'm repetitive, but...
Yes, birdie is just a f*ckin troll, just take a look at his previous posts in other threads, he is here only to spread FUD against linux

[birdie]

It's funny how most of my "opponents" seem to have overlooked the two systemd bug reports I told about (closed, wont_fix) and the fact that I do help the open source movement by reporting and fixing bugs

Lovely.

freedam, welcome to my ignore list.

and btw, "Windows has better driver because it is by far the most used desktop operanting system, it is obvious... " is just the most ridiculous statement I've ever heard. I can definitely say you don't understand anything about programming, APIs, hardware design and operating systems.

[Ericg]

It's funny how most of my "opponents" seem to have overlooked the two systemd bug reports I told about (closed, wont_fix)

I know I know, he's a troll, don't feed the troll, blah blah blah. Nevertheless:

I can't even find the post where you linked the two bug reports, so im assuming its the post by you marked as "--Delete--". That aside, I saw the bug reports before when they were originally posted and they were both about systemd using VT 1 for the GUI. Frankly...that makes sense. If you have a GUI installed, and its set to activate on boot, why wouldn't it be the default? I understand that you want ultimate choice, but any option OTHER than that just seems stupid and pointless. If the GUI works and its set to activate on boot...it should be the screen presented. If the GUI is broken, you'll get dropped to the VT login. If the GUI is installed but not activated...VT login. I can't think of a single sane reason or situation where you'd want the GUI login hidden under VT 6 or something.

[liam]

This clueless troll has helped to resolve at least one hundred bugs in Linux/Open Source software but you see only what you, as a Linux fanatic, want to see, that I am a Lennart hater, a troll, etc.

I've promised myself numerous times not to argue with people who fail to see father than their nose, who call names, who carefully choose to attack you instead of trying to do something for the common good and I'm doing this mistake again.

Keep trolling on phoronix/ubuntu/linux.com forums - that's what you do perfectly, meanwhile I'll return back to fixing problems, writing patches and reporting bugs and regressions.

Farewell.

This is my last post on this topic.
Birdie, you are a clueless troll because you can't seem to grasp the idea that fedora is still pre-alpha (AFAIK the board hasnt even finalized the feature set yet since at least one promised feature hasnt been able to meet the deadline). It is publicly available b/c that's the way open source projects work but that doesnt mean it should be run by regular users. If you want to report problems with the nightlies then do so, but dont bitch on a forum about the lack of stability of such software

[freedam]

It's funny how most of my "opponents" seem to have overlooked the two systemd bug reports I told about (closed, wont_fix) and the fact that I do help the open source movement by reporting and fixing bugs

Lovely.

freedam, welcome to my ignore list.

and btw, "Windows has better driver because it is by far the most used desktop operanting system, it is obvious... " is just the most ridiculous statement I've ever heard. I can definitely say you don't understand anything about programming, APIs, hardware design and operating systems.

Hahahahah, thank you, retarded idiot, so next time I can warn others on your real intentions and you'll not see it.

p.s. in b4 "you are answering to someone who blocked you": I'm only pointing out that he is an imbecile.