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Thread: GNOME 3.x Will Bring Back Some GNOME 2 Features

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  1. #1
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    Default GNOME 3.x Will Bring Back Some GNOME 2 Features

    Phoronix: GNOME 3.x Will Bring Back Some GNOME 2 Features

    Earlier this month it was decided that GNOME 3.8 would get rid of the GNOME Shell Fallback mode used for running the desktop environment in a way similar to the GNOME 2 "classic" environment while also not requiring any 3D GPU/driver configuration. Earlier today there was basically a call for forking the GNOME Classic/Fallback code so it could live on, but now it's been announced that some of the user-interface/experience elements will be brought to the GNOME 3.x world in a manner that's more easy for users to optionally enable...

    http://www.phoronix.com/vr.php?view=MTIzMzY

  2. #2
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    We'll see how this works out, but this may end up being a better option for me than MATE. I'm still using a vintage Linux Mint release with Gnome 2.32, and am holding off on upgrading until there's an obvious "best choice" for how to retain my beloved interface.

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    They screw up badly calling names those who don't like their crazy decisions and after a long while they give in partially while keeping an arrogant face.

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    heh

    sounds like the metrics aren't too hot.

    but seriously: "Going forward it will be easier to enable the GNOME Shell to exhibit old GNOME 2.x functionality like ... minimize/maximize buttons..."

    ummm... lolwut? Their new window decorator doesn't have min / max buttons? how the hell do you min / max a window?

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    Quote Originally Posted by johnc View Post
    ummm... lolwut? Their new window decorator doesn't have min / max buttons? how the hell do you min / max a window?
    Assuming that you're actually asking this question, you can maximize a window more easily by dragging it to the window edge you would like it to fill (top to fill the whole screen), or if your screen is especially large, just double-click on any portion of the titlebar. This is clearly much easier than aiming for a square button on the edge of a window, but perhaps not as discoverable as some would like.

    So far as minimizing goes, GNOME is trying to avoid the behavior of hiding applications in an abstracted list. It's not a very natural behavior, and it may only seem so because most of us have been using task lists for a very long time. They don't represent much, and they are usually small targets for the mouse.

    If you end up with more windows on the screen than you can manage, you can easily begin categorizing them in the overview. I understand that sometimes you don't always have a clear idea of how to group tasks, so a trick I like to use is middle-clicking the titlebar to send the window I've been looking at back.

    To be clear, while the overview is a good, natural way to manage tasks, the designers are aware of the issues with certain workflows and they're still trying to come up with better solutions to those problems.

    Aside from that, GNOME tries to encourage you to focus on one task at a time, as reduced distractions are better for your productivity. Of course, if you're not working on anything that may just mean helping you focus better on having fun.

    Not to mention that mutter does have minimize and maximize, they just arent enabled by default.
    Last edited by scionicspectre; 11-21-2012 at 10:33 PM.

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    This is not a bad idea. The problem with extensions is that they are highly prone to breaking with each update, so having the GNOME guys test the more useful ones before release and package them nicely will make them a bit less of a hack than they currently are.

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    Quote Originally Posted by scionicspectre View Post
    Aside from that, GNOME tries to encourage you to focus on one task at a time, as reduced distractions are better for your productivity.
    I'm gonna do my best not to swear, as this really infuriates me.

    My task as a programmer involves using my Linux workstation and 30" LCD to manage my source code editor (Eclipse), a Firefox window full of tabs for the pages for the site I'm working on editing the code for, likely also Chrome and Opera windows for the same, another browser window full of tabs containing the various reference documentation I need along with Google search results, etc, an Open Office window containing the project requirements document describing the features I'm working on, a gedit window for storing, editing, and copy/pasting code snippets and other stuff I need to remember, and a Pidgin window to my coworker who might be helping me test this stuff.

    The only thing the new Gnome Shell encourages - is making my hand hurt from all the extra mousing and clicking I need to do.

    (When it was first released, I posted a more detailed review at http://forums.fedoraforum.org/archiv.../t-263609.html )

    I have been surviving inside fallback mode, but, sorry, I think this is too little too late, and I'm going to go find a shell written by people who use their computer as more than a "one window at a time" iPad-like toy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by scionicspectre View Post
    So far as minimizing goes, GNOME is trying to avoid the behavior of hiding applications in an abstracted list. It's not a very natural behavior, and it may only seem so because most of us have been using task lists for a very long time. They don't represent much, and they are usually small targets for the mouse
    putting stuff in boxes for later use is one of the most natural things people do
    in fact it is so natural that every work desk, even computer work desk, has at least one drawer
    taskbars therefore are the most natural and comfortable way of having windows open that one will not use for a while

    gnome3 way of doing things is like having a desk with a couple piles of things
    while you may have overview and an illusion of control, the fact is you got a lot of junk on your work desk
    (if you were an electrician, mechanic or something similar; you'd have lots of problems and probably injuries...)


    so no, gnome3 way is not natural for most people
    it is natural for people that usually have messy desks
    (even thou i have a really messy desk, i still use the drawer for things i need once a day/month/etc)

    to clarify what i mean by "piles";
    if you open 3 terminals like i usually have and press alt+tab, you will find them in a sub-thingy grouped together
    then you have to use the arrow keys


    so in my opinion it is obvious that gnome3 was made for a tablet, not for a desktop

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by scionicspectre View Post
    Assuming that you're actually asking this question, you can maximize a window more easily by dragging it to the window edge you would like it to fill (top to fill the whole screen), or if your screen is especially large, just double-click on any portion of the titlebar. This is clearly much easier than aiming for a square button on the edge of a window, but perhaps not as discoverable as some would like.
    Are you seriously telling us that holding a button pressed while moving the mouse is easier than a single click? Really? Have you ever watched somebody with limited mobility do that? Are you saying it's easier to remember a different behavior for each edge of the screen than a single button? Are you crazy? Gnome used to be one of the more accessible desktops. Used to, not any longer.

    And what do you consider an "screen especially large"? I have a 27" main screen and two 17" auxiliary screens, and I don't consider any of them or the sum of them to be especially large, in fact I run out of space pretty often.

    Quote Originally Posted by scionicspectre View Post
    So far as minimizing goes, GNOME is trying to avoid the behavior of hiding applications in an abstracted list. It's not a very natural behavior, and it may only seem so because most of us have been using task lists for a very long time. They don't represent much, and they are usually small targets for the mouse.
    Not a natural behavior? Tell me you have never been caught by your mom/(girl/boy)friend/boss looking at a comic/porn/something and wanted to hide
    it behind the table/desk? Same goes for windows in a computer, sometimes you need/want to hide things, and changing to a different area/desktop doesn't do the trick, because when they tell you to show them a web/picture/document you go to choose/create a different area and they can see all the already existent areas, including what you wanted to hide.

    Quote Originally Posted by scionicspectre View Post
    If you end up with more windows on the screen than you can manage, you can easily begin categorizing them in the overview. I understand that sometimes you don't always have a clear idea of how to group tasks, so a trick I like to use is middle-clicking the titlebar to send the window I've been looking at back.
    And what do I do when I need to look at multiple windows wich hold input data I need to use for my current task? I NEED a lot of windows in the same screen, and It was easy to manage with gnome 2.xx, not any more with 3.x. Changing windows every few seconds isn't an option, I NEED them visible for a SINGLE TASK.

    Quote Originally Posted by scionicspectre View Post
    To be clear, while the overview is a good, natural way to manage tasks, the designers are aware of the issues with certain workflows and they're still trying to come up with better solutions to those problems.
    So you admit you had something that WORKED, but wanted a change and shoved down OUR throats what YOU think is better, even when you KNOW it has flaws that can get in the way of the users.

    Quote Originally Posted by scionicspectre View Post
    Aside from that, GNOME tries to encourage you to focus on one task at a time, as reduced distractions are better for your productivity. Of course, if you're not working on anything that may just mean helping you focus better on having fun.
    What happens when you NEED to manage multiple tasks simultaneously? Then GNOME gets in your way and stops you from working properly, because somebody thinks its better that way.

    In my daily job, I have to monitor a lot of things that may or may not raise visual alarms any second (so multiple windows at the same time), do some minor tasks while keeping an eye on those alarms, and every few minutes shove the minor tasks aside (minimize) to attend one of those alarms or any unscheduled events (while still keeping an eye on the alarms). If I change to a second viewing area to use a maximized window, I can't see the alarms in the first area, so that is a BIG NO!!! to GNOME 3 new workflow.

    In my own time, I usually have an IM app maximized on screen 1, a movie on auxiliary screen 3 and anything else on screen 2. If I'm reading my mail (thunderbird/evolution/claws/...) and click a link to open it in the browser, and then switch to a different area/desktop where my browser is, GNOME changes my 3 screens and I can't see whether somebody started talking to me. I could mark the media player window as visible on all desktops, but what happens to the IM multiple windows? That's only ONE example, me, but there are a LOT of people out there, with different use cases you DON'T KNOW.

    Quote Originally Posted by scionicspectre View Post
    Not to mention that mutter does have minimize and maximize, they just arent enabled by default.
    That's the best part of GNOME. The "we have this functionality, so let's hide it because our users are so retarded they get confused by it, we know better after all because we are geniuses" mentality and attitude.

    I've been a GNOME user since for a looong time, since I tried it with Debian 1.3.1. I've tried many alternatives during this years and always came back. Now I'm ashamed of supporting GNOME, and trying the alternatives again, but if things continue the way the are now, this time I won't be back

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by scionicspectre View Post
    Assuming that you're actually asking this question, you can maximize a window more easily by dragging it to the window edge you would like it to fill (top to fill the whole screen), or if your screen is especially large, just double-click on any portion of the titlebar. This is clearly much easier than aiming for a square button on the edge of a window, but perhaps not as discoverable as some would like.
    Are you seriously telling us that holding a button pressed while moving the mouse is easier than a single click? Really? Have you ever watched somebody with limited mobility do that? Are you saying it's easier to remember a different behavior for each edge of the screen than a single button? Are you crazy? Gnome used to be one of the more accessible desktops. Used to, not any longer.

    And what do you consider an "screen especially large"? I have a 27" main screen and two 17" auxiliary screens, and I don't consider any of them or the sum of them to be especially large, in fact I run out of space pretty often.

    Quote Originally Posted by scionicspectre View Post
    So far as minimizing goes, GNOME is trying to avoid the behavior of hiding applications in an abstracted list. It's not a very natural behavior, and it may only seem so because most of us have been using task lists for a very long time. They don't represent much, and they are usually small targets for the mouse.
    Not a natural behavior? Tell me you have never been caught by your mom/(girl/boy)friend/boss looking at a comic/porn/something and wanted to hide
    it behind the table/desk? Same goes for windows in a computer, sometimes you need/want to hide things, and changing to a different area/desktop doesn't do the trick, because when they tell you to show them a web/picture/document you go to choose/create a different area and they can see all the already existent areas, including what you wanted to hide.

    Quote Originally Posted by scionicspectre View Post
    If you end up with more windows on the screen than you can manage, you can easily begin categorizing them in the overview. I understand that sometimes you don't always have a clear idea of how to group tasks, so a trick I like to use is middle-clicking the titlebar to send the window I've been looking at back.
    And what do I do when I need to look at multiple windows wich hold input data I need to use for my current task? I NEED a lot of windows in the same screen, and It was easy to manage with gnome 2.xx, not any more with 3.x. Changing windows every few seconds isn't an option, I NEED them visible for a SINGLE TASK.

    Quote Originally Posted by scionicspectre View Post
    To be clear, while the overview is a good, natural way to manage tasks, the designers are aware of the issues with certain workflows and they're still trying to come up with better solutions to those problems.
    So you admit you had something that WORKED, but wanted a change and shoved down OUR throats what YOU think is better, even when you KNOW it has flaws that can get in the way of the users.

    Quote Originally Posted by scionicspectre View Post
    Aside from that, GNOME tries to encourage you to focus on one task at a time, as reduced distractions are better for your productivity. Of course, if you're not working on anything that may just mean helping you focus better on having fun.
    What happens when you NEED to manage multiple tasks simultaneously? Then GNOME gets in your way and stops you from working properly, because somebody thinks its better that way.

    In my daily job, I have to monitor a lot of things that may or may not raise visual alarms any second (so multiple windows at the same time), do some minor tasks while keeping an eye on those alarms, and every few minutes shove the minor tasks aside (minimize) to attend one of those alarms or any unscheduled events (while still keeping an eye on the alarms). If I change to a second viewing area to use a maximized window, I can't see the alarms in the first area, so that is a BIG NO!!! to GNOME 3 new workflow.

    In my own time, I usually have an IM app maximized on screen 1, a movie on auxiliary screen 3 and anything else on screen 2. If I'm reading my mail (thunderbird/evolution/claws/...) and click a link to open it in the browser, and then switch to a different area/desktop where my browser is, GNOME changes my 3 screens and I can't see whether somebody started talking to me. I could mark the media player window as visible on all desktops, but what happens to the IM multiple windows? That's only ONE example, me, but there are a LOT of people out there, with different use cases you DON'T KNOW.

    Quote Originally Posted by scionicspectre View Post
    Not to mention that mutter does have minimize and maximize, they just arent enabled by default.
    That's the best part of GNOME. The "we have this functionality, so let's hide it because our users are so retarded they get confused by it, we know better after all because we are geniuses" mentality and attitude.

    I've been a GNOME user since for a looong time, since I tried it with Debian 1.3.1. I've tried many alternatives during this years and always came back. Now I'm ashamed of supporting GNOME, and trying the alternatives again, but if things continue the way the are now, this time I won't be back

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